Why are there so many AWD cars now?
- Thread starter Elkins45
- Start date
Yes, he is confusing a differential lock with a transfer case lock. Some of the early AWD CUV's like the Rav4 and even early Rogues had a transfer case lock - where if you engaged it - it would lock equal power to the front and back differentials and not wait until the system sensed slipping tires. They were still open diff's which are likely enhanced with some sort of ABS traction control. Not sure on the Rav but the early Rogues would automatically unlock at 6mph, so it was really just to get you started.
As apposed to for example a wrangler Rubican or Land Cruiser, which has a real 4wd mechanical transfer case and locking diffs. When you put that type in 4wd the front and rear driveshafts spin in unison, and the front and rear diff's lock the axles together - all mechanical locks, no way for anything to slip. So all the wheels either spin no matter what - unless something breaks.
I highly doubt most apartment or condo complex have backup generators (maybe nursing homes do), and especially on 30/F individual condo unit will not have a dedicated diesel generator sticking out in the balcony. It makes no sense at all, as most of the time urban infrastructure will restore power soon (within a day). The local power would likely be rerouted from elsewhere and backup provided by your community, HOA, building, etc instead of your own.
Why am I using this analogy is, in places with no snow, if something happen people will likely find their municipal coming in to fix the problem "soon" instead of days and weeks, forcing you to go "off roading". or through a lot of snow. However people still buy AWD. This is like living in a 30/F condo and buy a generator with a tank of propane in the balcony. It can be done but it is kind of weird.
Yeah, most 2WD cars with open diffs are going to do much worse. I’d still rather have a 2WD with LSD and snow tires probably though (depends on car). AWD might get you going but it’s not gonna help you stop.
A proper, real AWD vehicle with front/center/rear LSDs works amazing; but that is a far cry from the neutered reactionary AWDs we get nowadays. Not that the new tech is bad - it'll help in a pinch still but neither is a fix for stupid driving.
For those that saw AWD doesn't help you stop or turn better in adverse weather, it does - but again only if the driver knows how to take advantage of the drivetrain to help. Most people don't. Tires of course, is the #1 thing here though but a good drivetrain willl either 1) compliment the tires really well or 2) hide the flaws of the tires really well.
To add; the amount of people that think their AWD equal snow tires has increased like, ten-fold as of late. Even from fellow gearheads who track.
For those that saw AWD doesn't help you stop or turn better in adverse weather, it does - but again only if the driver knows how to take advantage of the drivetrain to help. Most people don't. Tires of course, is the #1 thing here though but a good drivetrain willl either 1) compliment the tires really well or 2) hide the flaws of the tires really well.
To add; the amount of people that think their AWD equal snow tires has increased like, ten-fold as of late. Even from fellow gearheads who track.
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Look at this “stellar” AWD performance.
And you think a 1 wheel drive car will do the thing you mock?
Here’s a better Honda system that is FWD based
Here’s a competitor to the CRV and some snow in the Loading dock area for a little extra challenge
And a Toyota HiHy with the electric motor for AWD
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Ford's FWD based AWD does not work on demand/detected wheel spin (at least in 2017, of which I have a Fusion Sport and 2.0 Eco AWD Escape), it applies power to the rear as soon as load is deemed enough (upwards of 50% to rear, if engine load is high enough from a dead stop). It works fantastic.
My Fusion, with TT 2.7 V6 Eco, tuned for 93 puts out 420 torque (gross) and if you choose, you can floor it from a dead stop in the rain and it just hooks and goes (tires help too, as some of today's top perf tires, like the Mich PS4S, are sprinkled with fairy dust, apparently, and hook up 80-90% as good in wet pavement, as dry, especially when those tires are new) .
Now you can argue all day that is not required, excessive, a waste, etc.... Yet an entire message board based on "oil changes" probably is too, but here we are.......
There is a lot of mis-info here w/r to part time awd systems like you (and I) have. My Gen 5 Haldex in my Sportgwagen is very proactive vs. reactive. It's applying pressure to the clutch pack basically anytime you touch the gas pedal...the reaction time is momentary. I've logged it many times and I have a video of logging the activity of the awd system but BITOG so I can't post it....you can find it if you go to the video below and look around my channel - please like/sub as always. Also, look at this slow-mo of using a 4K RPM launch control in a ~350hp VW. The front wheel moves maybe 1/8 (?) of a turn before the rear goes. It's a great system. I can floor it from a stop in the rain and it just hooks. I have a "tune" on my awd system b/c after more than doubling my power, the system is torque-limited based on the stock power output. This creates a situation where only about 20-30% max torque I am producting was being transferred to the rear wheels. The tune got rid of this limitation so now at max I can get the 50% the system is capable of. Works great on the track pushing out of turns!!!Ford's FWD based AWD does not work on demand/detected wheel spin (at least in 2017, of which I have a Fusion Sport and 2.0 Eco AWD Escape), it applies power to the rear as soon as load is deemed enough (upwards of 50% to rear, if engine load is high enough from a dead stop). It works fantastic.
My Fusion, with TT 2.7 V6 Eco, tuned for 93 puts out 420 torque (gross) and if you choose, you can floor it from a dead stop in the rain and it just hooks and goes (tires help too, as some of today's top perf tires, like the Mich PS4S, are sprinkled with fairy dust, apparently, and hook up 80-90% as good in wet pavement, as dry, especially when those tires are new) .
Now you can argue all day that is not required, excessive, a waste, etc.... Yet an entire message board based on "oil changes" probably is too, but here we are.......
Note rear wheel engagement:
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edyvw
$50 site donor 2025
Interesting the Atlas!
edyvw
$50 site donor 2025
This one has 1” lift and appropriate tires. But that is it.
Driver mod > all. I'd like to keep mine once we get her something smaller/more sporty and do tires wheels suspension. It could also tow my wagon...
edyvw
$50 site donor 2025
Don't understand this?
But, with properly executed AWD, these vehicles can do what 99% of outdoorsy people do. We have around 100,000 miles of gravel roads in CO. Most require some clearance and AWD in case of melting snow, some mud etc. That is why Subaru's are so popular here. It is not just bcs. snow.
Just that having someone that knows how to drive the vehicle/understand's it's systems/limiations is really the most imporant thing. This driver clearly knew what they were doing and even though the system is not a locking 4x4 type deal, they were able to effectively offroad in it.
I agree, these soft-roaders should handle most anything average folks are doing. I've rented many many vehicles over my career and done a lot of offroad driving as a geologist in the field and never had an issue with even the most car-like awd cute-utes getting around muddy/dirt roads, fields, etc. AWD is a must for me in that capacity.
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edyvw
$50 site donor 2025
Ah ok, yes. This is Moab I think. Generally, people doing this are those that know what they getting into. Of course, the issue is that while it did it, that shift in torque can make you hit something if you are not careful. But, again, 99.999999% of people will never come close to it.
Also, like in everything, the choice of tires is fundamental. I would say all of these vehicles come with some sort of HP tires. I got Atlas with Pirelli Scorpion Zero 255/50 R20. I mean, why? I am trying to sell them and get something more suitable for these excursions. For winter I got a used set of 18" wheels and slapped 235/655 R18 snow tires. I did some 12-14% muddy/snow inclines at Arapahoe Basin, and there was absolutely no drama.
Right now only Honda Pilot TrailSPort comes with Continental TerrainContact A/T, and Atlas can be ordered with that BaseCamp package that includes Continentals like Honda or several other A/T tires.
I actually use our Subaru as intended...
My work commute is back roads with spotty treatment Thing has really surprised me. Was wanting a true AWD vehicle, and this one has not disappointed yet. It is interesting making tight turns on a dry parking lot though!
My work commute is back roads with spotty treatment Thing has really surprised me. Was wanting a true AWD vehicle, and this one has not disappointed yet. It is interesting making tight turns on a dry parking lot though!
For sure - they come with a street/car grand touring tire basically which is nearly worthless for anything beyond a gravel road. Tires so are so critical - I run the Pirelli Scorpion AS 3 on my wife's Atlas but if it was mine, I'd do an AT tire like a Falken Wild Peak or maybe the Conti AT one (can't recall the name)...most have a livable road ride.
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