Why are there so many AWD cars now?

[edyvw]

For sure - they come with a street/car ground touring tire basically which is nearly worthless for anything beyond a gravel road. Tires so are so critical - I run the Pirelli Scorpion AS 3 on my wife's Atlas but if it was mine, I'd do an AT tire like a Falken Wild Peak or maybe the Conti AT one (can't recall the name)...most have a livable road ride.

For most people, H/T tires are more than suitable like Continental TerrainContact H/T or Michelin Defender. I know some people who do fairly serious off-roading with Defenders.
I will move to 245/70 R17 and probably go Defenders. I live right here, so plenty fun:
https://www.onxmaps.com/offroad/beginner-offroad-trails-near-me/colorado-springs-co

 

[Al]

For most people, H/T tires are more than suitable like Continental TerrainContact H/T or Michelin Defender. I know some people who do fairly serious off-roading with Defenders.
I will move to 245/70 R17 and probably go Defenders. I live right here, so plenty fun:
https://www.onxmaps.com/offroad/beginner-offroad-trails-near-me/colorado-springs-co

Michelin CrossClimate 2s are the way to go. Expensive though. Nothing like them IMHO

 

[buster]

This is the system I have in the ZR2. I used it yesterday for the first time. Worked great. In mixed conditions I will be using it going forward. When off-road, 4HI/L.

https://www.evopower.ca/mrws/filedriver/MP3023_and_3024_Operation.pdf

 

[repairman54]

All 3 vehicles in my signature line are AWD or 4x4. My avatar explains it, I want to go play when the snow flies, get around and back home with minimal drama. I towed sleds in the '70's with an open diff. '67 Chevelle with snow tires so it's not just the vehicle.

 

[edyvw]

Michelin CrossClimate 2s are the way to go. Expensive though. Nothing like them IMHO

CC2 don’t have as strong sidewalls as Defender LTX or Continental H/T. The thing is with H/T tires is that they are built to prevent punctures in similar fashion as A/T tires like Terraincontact or GO15. But, they are not as aggressive so they are less noisy etc. It is trade off. Depending what each driver needs.

 

[Al]

CC2 don’t have as strong sidewalls as Defender LTX or Continental H/T. The thing is with H/T tires is that they are built to prevent punctures in similar fashion as A/T tires like Terraincontact or GO15. But, they are not as aggressive so they are less noisy etc. It is trade off. Depending what each driver needs.

Not arguing. But in my Subaru they are almost unstoppable

 

[edyvw]

Not arguing. But in my Subaru they are almost unstoppable

Me neither. However, don’t think we are talking same thing. CC2 will have better traction in inclement weather. H/T tires will be more durable in gravel, rocks etc. CC2 is street tire. H/T offers you more durability from punctures etc.

 

[Al]

Me neither. However, don’t think we are talking same thing. CC2 will have better traction in inclement weather. H/T tires will be more durable in gravel, rocks etc. CC2 is street tire. H/T offers you more durability from punctures etc.

You are most probably correct

 

[JoelB]

The biggest thing is the price difference. There used to be a considerable price difference, now not so much. The efficiency has gone up tremendously along with the capability.

Efficiency I can sort of agree with, but capability i don't. How do you know how effective your AWD system is? There's no industry standard test I've ever heard of and the quality of the systems vary between manufacturers.

Beyond placebo how would you even be sure AWD helped you in any given scenario?

 

[Ws6]

What I don’t think anyone has brought up is the marginal benefit v marginal cost.

We just drove our AWD car to karate. The marginal benefit was zero. The marginal cost was thousands I think, it was 12 years ago so don’t know the actual number

I put 80k miles on my cx5 turbo. The awd cost me $200 to service, once, and the dealer said it likely didnt even need the fluid changed but did it for me anyway. It got me through 3 winter snows and some nasty ice.

 

[Ws6]

Efficiency I can sort of agree with, but capability i don't. How do you know how effective your AWD system is? There's no industry standard test I've ever heard of and the quality of the systems vary between manufacturers.

Beyond placebo how would you even be sure AWD helped you in any given scenario?

Because fwd cars dont do well where I live. My Exs Pilot was fwd (2015), and couldn't even make it up my driveway on a clear dry sunny day without digging ruts.

 

[Ws6]

Actually on long steep hills, gravity and snow/ice will defeat FWD, even with the best friction studless tires. Then I bought chains to make it home. Then I bought a AWD cute-ute

Back when I lived in the Northeast l, where I worked, if you signed a WFH agreement, on snow days you have to WFH. If you need time to shovel, then you need to request PTO, otherwise it’s time fraud

The rest of us suckers have the day off to shovel the driveway and enjoy the day off and get paid via administrative leave

Lmao. "WFH". Many people do things that are important and necessary.

 

[JoelB]

Because fwd cars dont do well where I live. My Exs Pilot was fwd (2015), and couldn't even make it up my driveway on a clear dry sunny day without digging ruts.

Trust me when I tell you I've driven through some nasty weather. I've owned an AWD vehicle for 1 winter in my life and promptly went back to FWD. There are very few scenarios where its actually necessary.

 

[TiGeo]

Trust me when I tell you I've driven through some nasty weather. I've owned an AWD vehicle for 1 winter in my life and promptly went back to FWD. There are very few scenarios where its actually necessary.

The discussion reminds me of bikes. I can ride my drop bar "gravel" bike on the same trails I ride my mountain bike because I am an experienced and capable cyclist. I have passed folks on bigger travel "enduro" style mtbs in my drops. So what? The mtb is a better choice, safer in those conditions, and more fun. But yes I don't need a mtb to ride the trails so I win when I do this? What about the awd didn't you like that you "promptly went back to FWD"?

 

[Al]

Efficiency I can sort of agree with, but capability i don't. How do you know how effective your AWD system is? There's no industry standard test I've ever heard of and the quality of the systems vary between manufacturers.

Beyond placebo how would you even be sure AWD helped you in any given scenario?

My forester gets over 30 mpg highway, and goes anywhere (no placebo)

 

[JoelB]

The discussion reminds me of bikes. I can ride my drop bar "gravel" bike on the same trails I ride my mountain bike because I am an experienced and capable cyclist. I have passed folks on bigger travel "enduro" style mtbs in my drops. So what? The mtb is a better choice, safer in those conditions, and more fun. But yes I don't need a mtb to ride the trails so I win when I do this? What about the awd didn't you like that you "promptly went back to FWD"?

The problem with your analogy is you're talking about 2 different class vehicles. The mountain bike being designed for the purpose you're describing.

Let's take a CRV for example. It's not as if the FWD CRV is for on road and the AWD version is for off-road. They are the same vehicle one simply has rear drive capability. Not to mention it's an AWD system that only kicks in when needed and usually can't activate at speeds about 20mph (estimate).

I switched back due to fuel economy. But in my case the AWD was only a small factor since i went from a FWD sedan to an AWD small SUV. I'm not anti-AWD. I believe it's oversold on it's helpfulness to the average consumer. Of course there are scenarios where you wont get where you need to go without it. But those scenarios are rare and likely also require high ground clearance and specialty tires.

 

[TiGeo]

AWD system that only kicks in when needed

Many modern awd systems are actually active all the time, just at varying levels. See my post above somewhere w/r to the Haldex systems which are often described as "sends power when it slips". The notion that it has to slip then you get power to the rear is quite old-school at this point. Driving a vehicle where you have power at varying levels to all 4 wheels all the time is v. helpful in a variety of situations including even just wet roads. I don't disagree that awd has become the popular thing now and almost every small SUV/CUV comes with it when for many a basic fwd vehicle would suffice but having this additional capability isn't really a bad thing for most folks and it comes at a slight cost in the end of mpgs and a bit more $$$.

 

[PimTac]

Many modern awd systems are actually active all the time, just at varying levels. See my post above somewhere w/r to the Haldex systems which are often described as "sends power when it slips". The notion that it has to slip then you get power to the rear is quite old-school at this poing. Driving a vehicle where you have power at varying levels to all 4 wheels all the time is v. helpful in a variety of situations including even just wet roads. I don't disagree that awd has become the popular thing now and almost every small SUV/CUV comes with it when for many a basic fwd vehicle would suffice but having this additional capability isn't really a bad thing for most folks and it comes at a slight cost in the end of mpgs and a bit more $$$.

I agree. Many systems are predictive. Computers and sensors enable this.

 

[edyvw]

Because fwd cars dont do well where I live. My Exs Pilot was fwd (2015), and couldn't even make it up my driveway on a clear dry sunny day without digging ruts.

2015 Pilot FWD struggles going forward properly on flat yet alone uphill. In rain at full acceleration on flat, it needs three lanes due to torque steer.

 

[edyvw]

Trust me when I tell you I've driven through some nasty weather. I've owned an AWD vehicle for 1 winter in my life and promptly went back to FWD. There are very few scenarios where its actually necessary.

Promptly went back? What it did for you? Drop in fuel efficiency by 10mpg? Wore out tires in a year?
Was that CR-V? Bcs. I can’t imagine anyone saying: yes, more Honda’s torque steer.