Why are there so many AWD cars now?

[JoelB]

Many modern awd systems are actually active all the time, just at varying levels. See my post above somewhere w/r to the Haldex systems which are often described as "sends power when it slips". The notion that it has to slip then you get power to the rear is quite old-school at this point. Driving a vehicle where you have power at varying levels to all 4 wheels all the time is v. helpful in a variety of situations including even just wet roads. I don't disagree that awd has become the popular thing now and almost every small SUV/CUV comes with it when for many a basic fwd vehicle would suffice but having this additional capability isn't really a bad thing for most folks and it comes at a slight cost in the end of mpgs and a bit more $$$.

I would agree that having AWD is not a bad thing in general. I think it can be risky when it's oversold to a "layman" for lack of a better term. Especially when most of these commodity SUV's are sold on rock hard eco tires.

I'm not familiar with the intricacies of each auto makers AWD systems. It's hard for me to believe commodity cars such as a CRV, Rav4, hyundai/kia, nissan products are constantly sending power to all 4 wheels. It completely goes against the idea of efficiency. I also suspect the sophistication of these systems is overestimated. How can you have some space age AWD on a $25k vehicle? But that's just my thought, not a fact.

 

[Pew]

I also suspect the sophistication of these systems is overestimated. How can you have some space age AWD on a $25k vehicle? But that's just my thought, not a fact.

They're able to do it by developing it on more expensive lineups and then handing the technology down the line as the technology gets more mature; they start to add or remove things that they notice their customers won't notice is gone. Certain things like a complicated and expensive limited-slip diff may not be needed or missed by, say, a typical CRV driver when they can just have individual brakes controlled by the computer to act like a pseudo-LSD.

 

[TiGeo]

I would agree that having AWD is not a bad thing in general. I think it can be risky when it's oversold to a "layman" for lack of a better term. Especially when most of these commodity SUV's are sold on rock hard eco tires.

I'm not familiar with the intricacies of each auto makers AWD systems. It's hard for me to believe commodity cars such as a CRV, Rav4, hyundai/kia, nissan products are constantly sending power to all 4 wheels. It completely goes against the idea of efficiency. I also suspect the sophistication of these systems is overestimated. How can you have some space age AWD on a $25k vehicle? But that's just my thought, not a fact.

Maybe a better way to describe it as someone above did - more predictive now than just reactive. As you give it gas, some power is being transfered and it will vary based on thottle, slip, etc. This isn't space age tech, ABS wheel speed sensors is about all that is needed. Cruising along you are basicaly fwd. It's mainly when you are accelerating that you are getting some power transfer under "normal" driving conditions.

Yes, many folks in areas like where I live (that don't have hard-core winters where folks are using winter tires) assume awd will help in slippery conditions when the tires will limit it greatly. Still, awd overall is a good thing and I really see no downsides but a slight ding in mpgs for gained traction in a variety of driving conditions.

 

[IndyIan]

They're able to do it by developing it on more expensive lineups and then handing the technology down the line as the technology gets more mature; they start to add or remove things that they notice their customers won't notice is gone. Certain things like a complicated and expensive limited-slip diff may not be needed or missed by, say, a typical CRV driver when they can just have individual brakes controlled by the computer to act like a pseudo-LSD.

Yeah, there's no need for a complicated system anyways, 99.999% of the time. Most people aren't driving on terrain where 1 wheel is up in the air... I mainly got the subaru because the AWD isn't an add on, the AWD works good enough with tires I want to run on the highway, it can tow, and it gets good mileage.

 

[buster]

Efficiency I can sort of agree with, but capability i don't. How do you know how effective your AWD system is? There's no industry standard test I've ever heard of and the quality of the systems vary between manufacturers.

Beyond placebo how would you even be sure AWD helped you in any given scenario?

I've driven them quite a bit and have tested them on various surfaces from gravel, sand, snow and mixed precipitation. The traction you get is undeniable and obvious when driving them.

 

[JoelB]

I've driven them quite a bit and have tested them on various surfaces from gravel, sand, snow and mixed precipitation. The traction you get is undeniable and obvious when driving them.

Without driving a FWD and AWD version of the vehicle back to back how do you know how much the AWD system is actually helping?

 

[Pew]

Without driving a FWD and AWD version of the vehicle back to back how do you know how much the AWD system is actually helping?

You can feel it kick in; at least I can with the CX5 transferring power to the rear if say, I'm taking a sharp left turn into my neighborhood on a rainy day with the asphalt surface. With the Evo you can feel the difference when the limited slip diffs start locking.

 

[TiGeo]

I've driven them quite a bit and have tested them on various surfaces from gravel, sand, snow and mixed precipitation. The traction you get is undeniable and obvious when driving them.

Easiest is just taking off on any loose surface, no wheel spin. Also...no torque steer!

 

[buster]

Without driving a FWD and AWD version of the vehicle back to back how do you know how much the AWD system is actually helping?

Because I've driven thousands of miles over my life and I've yet to get a Subaru to lose traction in wet weather conditions. Tires are the most important, but AWD just gives the vehicle added stability/traction in wet weather. In my experience anyway.

 

[TiGeo]

You can feel it kick in; at least I can with the CX5 transferring power to the rear if say, I'm taking a sharp left turn into my neighborhood on a rainy day with the asphalt surface. With the Evo you can feel the difference when the limited slip diffs start locking.

Here's a ~350hp fwd-biased awd (Gen 5 Haldex) with nearly a full-throttle take off left turn (heavy acceleration, not full WOT) out of my neighborhood. Zero slip. Do that with my fwd Focus which has

 

[IndyIan]

Without driving a FWD and AWD version of the vehicle back to back how do you know how much the AWD system is actually helping?

For me, AWD isn't significant in rain or gravel roads. Sure if you are racing on those surfaces, or stomp on the gas pulling out onto the highway in the rain then its a huge help, but for just getting around it isn't needed, and most systems aren't doing anything because there's no loss of grip.
Low speed driving on snow and ice is where AWD becomes important to me, and when my fwd car with snows isn't making it up my driveway, and my AWD car with all seasons goes up with just enough wheelspin to activate the AWD system, you definitely know its working. But once you are up to speed on road, good tires trumps drive system, and driver aids for stopping and handling.

 

[buster]

Without driving a FWD and AWD version of the vehicle back to back how do you know how much the AWD system is actually helping?

Better example would be this weekend. I was driving my truck around in torrential rain in 2wd. Rear wheels would slip easily from a stop. Put it into Auto 4WD and I can floor it from a stop with no slipping. Next time it's raining out go to your nearest Subaru dealer and drive one. You may be surprised.

I'm not saying you need AWD either. You don't. Good tires first and foremost. But AWD i think is nice to have in poor weather conditions.

 

[TiGeo]

Better example would be this weekend. I was driving my truck around in torrential rain in 2wd. Rear wheels would slip easily from a stop. Put it into Auto 4WD and I can floor it from a stop with no slipping. Next time it's raining out go to your nearest Subaru dealer and drive one. You may be surprised.

I'm not saying you need AWD either. You don't. Good tires first and foremost. But AWD i think is nice to have in poor weather conditions.

It's more sure-footed overall to me. Not needed of course. Does impact mpgs. Like anything, do you own calcs on it but many folks should at least try driving one back to back with the non-awd version - it's very good these days and seemless.

 

[Pew]

Here's a ~350hp fwd-biased awd (Gen 5 Haldex) with nearly a full-throttle take off left turn (heavy acceleration, not full WOT) out of my neighborhood. Zero slip. Do that with my fwd Focus which has

Sorry I should have been more specific; I can feel the differences between the SAWC modes on the Evo, which control the locking force from the default open state. This way, you can test out the 3 different modes and see how the system responds to inputs based off the force. There's also a simple screen the driver can change on the center dash that will show the force applied to each wheel. It's a cool feeling but should be tested when it's safe.

 

[TiGeo]

Sorry I should have been more specific; I can feel the differences between the SAWC modes on the Evo, which control the locking force from the default open state. This way, you can test out the 3 different modes and see how the system responds to inputs based off the force.

Yeah, no center diff here with Haldex so it's just a clutch clamping/un-clamping at various pressures so it's not v. noticeable.

 

[PimTac]

It's more sure-footed overall to me. Not needed of course. Does impact mpgs. Like anything, do you own calcs on it but many folks should at least try driving one back to back with the non-awd version - it's very good these days and seemless.

When I drive in rainy conditions the CX5 drives like it’s on rails. That is reassuring when I’m driving in heavy rain going downhill and around a curve with water visibly flowing across the road.

 

[JoelB]

Better example would be this weekend. I was driving my truck around in torrential rain in 2wd. Rear wheels would slip easily from a stop. Put it into Auto 4WD and I can floor it from a stop with no slipping. Next time it's raining out go to your nearest Subaru dealer and drive one. You may be surprised.

I'm not saying you need AWD either. You don't. Good tires first and foremost. But AWD i think is nice to have in poor weather conditions.

I agree, AWD is no bad thing. I also agree tires are number 1 when it comes to safety in inclement road conditions. In my opinion the average consumer would benefit more in the winter from a set of snow tires on a FWD car than an AWD vehicle and miscellaneous all seasons (non all weathers).

One funny thing is that I have never in my life had traction issues in the wet. No matter how hard it's rained I've never experienced that. That is if you disregard hydroplaning on deeper standing water.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Because I've driven thousands of miles over my life and I've yet to get a Subaru to lose traction in wet weather conditions. Tires are the most important, but AWD just gives the vehicle added stability/traction in wet weather. In my experience anyway.

I have in my old 2011 Outback with a 6M when I was selling it, I was demonstrating its capabilities to the FORD salesman when I was trading the car. I entered into a tight sweeper at low speed and then fanned the clutch and tossed it into a beautiful 4 wheel drift - on a wet road. I had never done that move in that car before; I even impressed myself. He mentioned something about need to go to the Men's room to fix something. - Ken

 

[edyvw]

When I drive in rainy conditions the CX5 drives like it’s on rails. That is reassuring when I’m driving in heavy rain going downhill and around a curve with water visibly flowing across the road.

That is all on tires.

 

[edyvw]

I would agree that having AWD is not a bad thing in general. I think it can be risky when it's oversold to a "layman" for lack of a better term. Especially when most of these commodity SUV's are sold on rock hard eco tires.

I'm not familiar with the intricacies of each auto makers AWD systems. It's hard for me to believe commodity cars such as a CRV, Rav4, hyundai/kia, nissan products are constantly sending power to all 4 wheels. It completely goes against the idea of efficiency. I also suspect the sophistication of these systems is overestimated. How can you have some space age AWD on a $25k vehicle? But that's just my thought, not a fact.

Most are sending some power when starting to move. Once a certain speed is reached, usually torque in those vehicles is sent to the front wheels. Toyota until 2015, had in Sienna for example 100% FWD until it slips. But 2015 and later, as well as Highlander had an updated system where it would send during the initial move 10% to the rear wheels. Compared to Tiguan we have which has previous generation Haldex, it was definitely less capable, but still good enough to go through the worst blizzards in the Rockies.
Tiguan on other hand behaves in snow like a goat.