Why are there so many AWD cars now?

[TiGeo]

The Mazda's AWD during passive operation is something like 99% front and 1% rear or 98% front and 2% rear. I forget which one but they keep the rear just slightly active to reduce the "pause" before the system becomes energized.

This is what the Haldex in the VWs is like, it's only a few % engaged while cruising.

 

[TiGeo]

The VW Atlas forum got triggered when MotorTrend said the Atlas BaseCamp is useless with only 1 front wheel (with the Continental TerrainContact A/T) losing traction.
https://www.vwatlasforum.com/threads/motortrend-trashes-atlas-off-road-performance.6277/

hahaha - I'm a mod on that forum.

 

[buster]

Mazda's system is heavily FWD bias, but works well on dry/wet roads. It's not meant for off-roading at all. Most SUVs/CUVs aren't.

 

[UG_Passat]

Mazda's system is heavily FWD bias, but works well on dry/wet roads. It's not meant for off-roading at all. Most SUVs/CUVs aren't.

Apparently Mazda needed the YouTube reviewers approvals and added a "Trail button" to it.

 

[TiGeo]

It's no different than the "Off-road" mode on the Tiguan & Atlas. Press a button and the logic for the AWD & ABS system is different than driving on normal slippery roads. But you see, after pressing "Trail mode", it got out just fine.

This is also why subaru has "X-mode" on their cars.

And that's how he tests. He tests in default modes until it gets stuck, and then activates the other modes and gizmos to get it unstuck, to show a difference in behavior.

I did a bit of work and logged the Haldex activity in offroad mode in my Atlas vs. normal - I noted no difference (have the graphs/data somewhere). I think it just adjusts the ABS bits/nannies/traction control and maybe the shift points.

 

[buster]

Apparently Mazda needed the YouTube reviewers approvals and added a "Trail button" to it.

They revised it too from the previous version which was based on 27 different metrics to determine where to send power. Now it's simply based on the amount of torque going to each wheel, so they say. I believe Mazda still sends a small amount of power to rear wheels at higher speeds, per Dave Coleman.

I think AWD systems with a center diff that have torque splits like 60/40 (Subaru) or even 90/10 have some advantage due to some amount of power going to both axles before slippage.

 

[edyvw]

Toyota used 1 AWD system for the 3rd gen Sienna, for its 10 year lifespan, it's the Active Torque Control. Dynamic Torque Control was never available in 3rd gen Sienna.

Unlike the PQ35 Tiguan, which started with a Gen4 haldex and ended with a Gen 5 Haldex (around 2012-2013 was the switchover)

In 2015 it had numerous changes. AWD was updated, and sound insulation was improved by about 25%. AWD itself was not mechanically changed etc. it was just updated.
Tiguan does not have anything to do with it, but its system is like three lights years ahead.

 

[edyvw]

Yes if you search hard enough you will always find a example to back up your point.

You sure like to get argumentative on these threads.

I am just pointing out that what Mazda says (which pretty much any manufacturer argues) is not consistent with performance.
Hard enough? It took me literally 5 seconds.

 

[UG_Passat]

They revised it too from the previous version which was based on 27 different metrics to determine where to send power. Now it's simply based on the amount of torque going to each wheel, so they say. I believe Mazda still sends a small amount of power to rear wheels at higher speeds, per Dave Coleman.

I think AWD systems with a center diff that have torque splits like 60/40 (Subaru) or even 90/10 have some advantage due to some amount of power going to both axles before slippage.

Subaru's electonic multiplate clutch system, the information isn't widely out there and conflicting, but supposedly, when it slips, it reverts to a 50:50 bias, unlike the viscous coupling based AWD, which defaults to 50:50 and the power does go from the wheels that slips to the wheels the grip

 

[edyvw]

The VW Atlas forum got triggered when MotorTrend said the Atlas BaseCamp is useless with only 1 front wheel (with the Continental TerrainContact A/T) losing traction.
https://www.vwatlasforum.com/threads/motortrend-trashes-atlas-off-road-performance.6277/

No special mode could on the Atlas could get the car unstuck.



Of course, it's the driver's fault, because if he drove faster and used momentum, he would not have gotten stuck in the first place. But using momentum is sort of cheating and puts you at risk for more unexpected vehicle damage, which is a no-no when you borrow a press vehicle.

And that's why the Youtube reviewers crawl off-road, to 1) increase the chance of getting stuck and testing the brains of the AWD system and other gizmos and 2) avoid the surprise trail damage that would get them on the ban list (See Everymandriver on why Toyota stopped lending him cars to review).

Again:


One thing is for sure, oversized Prius will never do this.

 

[UG_Passat]

In 2015 it had numerous changes. AWD was updated, and sound insulation was improved by about 25%. AWD itself was not mechanically changed etc. it was just updated.
Tiguan does not have anything to do with it, but its system is like three lights years ahead.

It was mechanically changed to a Haldex 5 system. An "updated" Haldex 4 would have solely been software changes, similar to the "Trail" button on the Mazda system you claimed to be inferior.

You have both a fuel pump strainer and physical filter in the Haldex.

The Haldex 5 on the PQ35 only has the pump strainer.

The VCDS controller scan results in different part numbers. The Gen4's are 0AY, and the Gen5 is 0CQ

 

[UG_Passat]

Again:


One thing is for sure, oversized Prius will never do this.

Not without mods like a lifted suspension and larger tires, like the Atlas shown.

 

[edyvw]

It was mechanically changed to a Haldex 5 system. An "updated" Haldex 4 would have solely been software changes, similar to the "Trail" button on the Mazda system you claimed to be inferior.

You have both a fuel pump strainer and physical filter in the Haldex.

The Haldex 5 on the PQ35 only has the pump strainer.

The VCDS controller scan results in different part numbers. The Gen4's are 0AY, and the Gen5 is 0CQ

I was referring to Toyota and not Tiguan with changes.
My 2011 Tiguan AWD is far more capable than my 2015 Toyota. You cannot compare those two systems.
In 2015 Toyota updated AWD together with a slew of other things, including interior etc.

 

[edyvw]

Not without mods like a lifted suspension and larger tires, like the Atlas shown.

We are talking AWD here. Yes, I noted that earlier.
The suspension is lifted 1" (H&R springs) and the tires are actually the same that VW gives as an option in basecamp, 245/70 R17 or 265/70 R17 (which this Atlas had). Lifting suspension does not magically improves AWD. Tires are always important.
You can put that on Highlander, and still won't come close to that Arch.

 

[UG_Passat]

We are talking AWD here. Yes, I noted that earlier.
The suspension is lifted 1" (H&R springs) and the tires are actually the same that VW gives as an option in basecamp, 245/70 R17 or 265/70 R17 (which this Atlas had). Lifting suspension does not magically improves AWD. Tires are always important.
You can put that on Highlander, and still won't come close to that Arch.

Lifting the car and the larger diameter tires affects your ground clearance, approach/departure/breakover angles which are important stats for offroading, as well as body clearance. But it gives you breathing in case you need to air down the tires, which decreases the aforementioned stats from the lift and larger tires.

265/70r17 will rub on the Atlas without a lift.

There's also tricks like removing the sway bars, so the independent suspension work better offroad (but not on-road).

 

[UG_Passat]

I was referring to Toyota and not Tiguan with changes.
My 2011 Tiguan AWD is far more capable than my 2015 Toyota. You cannot compare those two systems.
In 2015 Toyota updated AWD together with a slew of other things, including interior etc.

2015 Sienna was more cosmetic refresh, mostly inside, with some updated tail lights outside.

The AWD didn't change, even though on other models, Toyota also had "Dynamic Torque Control AWD" that sold alongside the Active Torque Control depending on trim.

 

[edyvw]

Lifting the car and the larger diameter tires affects your ground clearance, approach/departure/breakover angles which are important stats for offroading, as well as body clearance. But it gives you breathing in case you need to air down the tires, which decreases the aforementioned stats from the lift and larger tires.

265/70r17 will rub on the Atlas without a lift.

There's also tricks like removing the sway bars, so the independent suspension work better offroad (but not on-road).

I am not sure why you think no one else knows that but you?
We are talking AWD capabilities. You saw video, complain to Motor Trend.

 

[edyvw]

2015 Sienna was more cosmetic refresh, mostly inside, with some updated tail lights outside.

The AWD didn't change, even though on other models, Toyota also had "Dynamic Torque Control AWD" that sold alongside the Active Torque Control depending on trim.

Yes, tru like that oil pump.

 

[odie]

Been using F.W.D. over 35 years . Change to studded snows usually late October to the end of November . A.W.D. won't make a difference going downhill on a road covered with ice . Studs will .

 

[97prizm]

Efficiency I can sort of agree with, but capability i don't. How do you know how effective your AWD system is? There's no industry standard test I've ever heard of and the quality of the systems vary between manufacturers.

Beyond placebo how would you even be sure AWD helped you in any given scenario?

A year ago or so a YouTube channel took awd and 4wd vehicles from the factory and put them through their paces from the factory. It was interesting to see.