Why are European cars so problematic?

[coachditka]

I'm not poo-pooing all of them, but it seems like our Volvo is always having some issue. Just little things.

I read the Audi, VW, BMW, and Volvo boards and it just seems like these cars are fun to drive, but the upkeep is just a nightmare.

I have 212k on my 05 Titan and have never had a major issue.

The Volvo has 77k and is just falling apart. All the interior trim has come off the doors. Headliner falling down. All UCA, LCA, CV boots, wheel bearings, fuel pump, EVAP canister, Cam seal, PCV hose, coolant tank, and others I can't even remember.

I'm not starting a thread to complain about my car, but really wonder why Nissan, Toyota, Honda, etc just run and run with a little upkeep and Euro cars are falling apart.

Wife is almost dead set on a used XC90 and I'm putting my foot down. It's not worth the risk.

I know some have had great Euro car experiences, but it seems that more have had bad ones.

 

[NHGUY]

And Volvo is now Chinese owned.Think they are going to get any better?

 

[Turk]

Oh, this'll be good.

 

[bigjl]

Strange

As when i sold my V50(2008) it had the best part of 200k and apart from a worn carpet, my fault for driving in work boots, the interior was unmarked.

It should be pointed out that the V50 is actually a Ford Focus with a different body on top.

Could it be the high temps and sun are degrading the soft touch plastics that are common in European cars?

I know that US built cars imported to the UK, Caliber, Sebring, PT Cruiser usually have harder shiny plastics.

It is funny that you have issue with European build quality in the US.

As most US cars have a reputation for poor build in the UK!

 

[bigjl]

Originally Posted By: NHGUY
And Volvo is now Chinese owned.Think they are going to get any better?


Why would it make any difference.

Ford ownership didn't improve quality or reliability it just resulted in cars built on Ford platforms to save cost.

You are confused as to what this means.

Chinese money is invested into Volvo to improve R&D budgets. Volvo are already using their own diesel engines in some vehicles again.

But more significantly the Chinese owners will benefit from the engineering expertise of Volvo.

The same thing happened with Jaguar Land Rover.

TaTa invested money and JLR has given assistance to improve TaTa products.

A partnership that i think will benefit all those involved.

If Saab had got financial [censored] instead of being lumbered with poor GM platforms to use then they wouldn't have had to modify them so much to get them as close to Saab quality as possible.

Which then impacted on Saab profitability and ultimately led to their demise as the new 95 was rushed into production before it was ready

 

[Lead Shoes]

All I hear is people moaning about the high cost of repairs on Euro cars, I highly suspect most of the problems come from lack of proper maintenance.

 

[Pablo]

It's not that they are particularly problematic, it's just that they are overpriced and the service is REALLY overpriced and the parts are a rip-off. Almost as bad as Toyota and Honda.

 

[cdeason]

I have owned a number of BMW's, every one has been problem free, I educate myself on the particular model and take care of any weak areas before hand, my 07 328i has 157K miles and never an issue, buy parts from RockAuto or a BMW dealer on line to save money

 

[SwampSurvivor]

One of the mechanic channels on youtube. He made mention of how it's only a good idea to lease one and dump it if you have to have one.

 

[Trav]

I don't understand it. In Germany we drive the cars hard (not beat them) and get hundreds of thousand out of them without much fuss.
I honestly believe its the poor choice of lubricants in the US by some owners determined to save a buck using non approved lubes and additives along with guys working on them essentially breaking more than they fix.

I never saw or heard of so many problems with German cars until I came here. To hear some of these guys on forums talk Germany and whole Europe for that matter must be literally littered with broken down cars.
I see many MB diesel cars with a million km on the clock still running like a champ.
Strange how the Police cars get 300K on them without being in the garage every week.

I do have one observation though. American drivers seem to treat German cars either like glass or they beat the living daylights out of them on the track, neither is good for them.
Drive them like a Chevy and use the correct lubes, service them properly with quality parts and they wont break.

 

[Chris142]

It does seem that Americans buy expensive cars then dont want to pay the price for proper lubes and repairs. It is common at my shop to have a snowball effect on European cars. Touch one thing and 3 unrelated things break before it gets out of the door.

 

[kschachn]

Like any car (and the four that I own, including an old BMW), after a number of years all the plastic fasteners and attachment pieces become brittle and are either broken when you start or they break trying to remove them. On just about any maintenance project I spend at least half as much on all the doo-dads as I do on the part I'm replacing. I tend to like nice new hardware and I'm obsessive about the right fasteners, so I'm on an extreme end no doubt.

Also on old cars when you are taking off something like the water pump, there are a lot of other things you have to go through to get to the part - in this case the belts, the tensioners, the idler pulleys, the fan and the fan clutch. All of which after 15+ years can be worn out. What are you going to do, replace the failed part and ignore the worn and almost failed ancillary parts you see on the way in?

It does get expensive. On the whole the parts I buy for the BMW are comparable in price to the Toyota or Honda ones, if you know where to buy them. Going to the local dealer is not the right place. I had a boss who would buy Porsche cars that often had a single major failure that the owner was unwilling to have fixed at the dealer. Like a water pump that was a $1200+ job at the dealer, but $150 for the part online. He would get these cars relatively inexpensive, fix them, drive them for a while, and then sell them. He did good doing this.

Originally Posted By: Chris142
It does seem that Americans buy expensive cars then dont want to pay the price for proper lubes and repairs. It is common at my shop to have a snowball effect on European cars. Touch one thing and 3 unrelated things break before it gets out of the door.

 

[nleksan]

Of all the cars in my signature, plus a dozen+ others I've owned, I've had exactly one "breakdown" and that was the electric fan resistor going out on my 328.

The fact is, BMW's at least are extremely reliable, more so than any American car I've owned. You simply have to be attuned to the car's needs, and preventative maintenance is absolutely essential. You wait until a part breaks, aka you "repair" rather than "maintain", and costs will get sky high very quickly. Taking it to the dealer for anything, combined with following recommended parts service intervals, is THE recipe for ridiculously expensive ownership.
Personally, I use the preventative maintenance as an opportunity to upgrade, and save thousands on labor by not only going to the best indy mechanic I've met, but also by addressing entire subsystems at once. For example, I don't just replace a radiator with a new OEM one; I go with a CR/Zionsville radiator, new Stewart EMP pump, metal thermostat housing w New motorsports thermostat, Samco Sport 7-ply silicone hoses for the entire system, and so forth. Or, when the factory suspension is up, I drop the entire suspension and most of the drivetrain, inspect every single main component and upgrade as needed, replace every single bushing/bearing/mount w AKG/TMS/Powerflex ones, front/rear lower control arms replaced with rear adjustable TMS units (front are Meyle HD or ZHP w serviceable ball joints), Hotchkis sways and adj endlinks, weld in subframe reinforcements, add Mason Engineering front and rear strut braces w the rear X-brace (tying thettowers to the subframe, distributing load across 6-8x greater area), and switch to extremely high quality coilovers instead of struts/shocks and spring combos (KW V2/V3/Clubsport, TC Kline D/A, or for track use, Moton/Ohlins/JRZ 3-/4-way adjustable units; the bodies are stainless steel and on top of that treated to further eliminate the chance of rust, the shocks are fully serviceable, and most have lifetime warranties including free rebuilds and steeply discounted revalving costs).

I have put a lot of miles on a lot of BMW's, and the one thing that matters most is being an educated owner, because treating these like you would a Camry will kill your wallet. IME, that's how most people get sour on Euros, the latter part.

 

[coachditka]

Trim, suspension, and internal engine is not maintainable parts.

I have always changed the oil, tranny fluid, etc.

I have concluded that the hot Texas sun is not compatible with Swedish trim adhesive.

 

[dishdude]

Originally Posted By: coachditka
I'm not poo-pooing all of them, but it seems like our Volvo is always having some issue. Just little things.

I read the Audi, VW, BMW, and Volvo boards and it just seems like these cars are fun to drive, but the upkeep is just a nightmare.

I have 212k on my 05 Titan and have never had a major issue.

The Volvo has 77k and is just falling apart. All the interior trim has come off the doors. Headliner falling down. All UCA, LCA, CV boots, wheel bearings, fuel pump, EVAP canister, Cam seal, PCV hose, coolant tank, and others I can't even remember.

I'm not starting a thread to complain about my car, but really wonder why Nissan, Toyota, Honda, etc just run and run with a little upkeep and Euro cars are falling apart.

Wife is almost dead set on a used XC90 and I'm putting my foot down. It's not worth the risk.

I know some have had great Euro car experiences, but it seems that more have had bad ones.


I guess it's all your luck. My parents have an '04 Maxima that has totally fallen apart at 80k. Transmission went out at 72k, again at 78k, the water pump driven by the timing belt is leaking (they are dropping it off for repair tomorrow), door lock actuator sticks, they had to do the thermostat a few months ago, the sunroof won't open and the strut mounts make all kinds of noise. They bought it new and it's not like my Mother is hard on the car. If the car makes it to 100k it will be a miracle.

 

[Gabe]

I blame the Audi/BMW/VW owners.

Sure my American car occasionally needs repairs, but I don't go crying all over the internet about it.

 

[Trinh]

Originally Posted By: Chris142
It does seem that Americans buy expensive cars then dont want to pay the price for proper lubes and repairs. It is common at my shop to have a snowball effect on European cars. Touch one thing and 3 unrelated things break before it gets out of the door.

That is the most ridiculous thing I have heard today and also ignorant/racist. Answer me this: why are audi/VW CONSISTENTLY at the bottom of Consumer Reports' reliability surveys? Poor engineering and quality. It took them until 2013 to finally gain some ground. Were BMW's notorious fuel pump problems due to "lack of maintenance"?

No one is bemoaning maintenance and repair bills, the proper context is during the lifespan of the automobile. You shouldn't have to fork over MAJOR repair money at fewer than, let's say, 50,000 miles.

I would argue the posters who have experienced few problems are the exception, not the norm.

 

[dishdude]

Originally Posted By: Trinh
Originally Posted By: Chris142
It does seem that Americans buy expensive cars then dont want to pay the price for proper lubes and repairs. It is common at my shop to have a snowball effect on European cars. Touch one thing and 3 unrelated things break before it gets out of the door.

That is the most ridiculous thing I have heard today and also ignorant/racist. Answer me this: why are audi/VW CONSISTENTLY at the bottom of Consumer Reports' reliability surveys? Poor engineering and quality. It took them until 2013 to finally gain some ground. Were BMW's notorious fuel pump problems due to "lack of maintenance"?

No one is bemoaning maintenance and repair bills, the proper context is during the lifespan of the automobile. You shouldn't have to fork over MAJOR repair money at fewer than, let's say, 50,000 miles.

I would argue the posters who have experienced few problems are the exception, not the norm.


Racist? Where did you get that from? This entire thread is ridiculous.

 

[Trinh]

Originally Posted By: dishdude
Originally Posted By: Trinh
Originally Posted By: Chris142
It does seem that Americans buy expensive cars then dont want to pay the price for proper lubes and repairs. It is common at my shop to have a snowball effect on European cars. Touch one thing and 3 unrelated things break before it gets out of the door.

That is the most ridiculous thing I have heard today and also ignorant/racist. Answer me this: why are audi/VW CONSISTENTLY at the bottom of Consumer Reports' reliability surveys? Poor engineering and quality. It took them until 2013 to finally gain some ground. Were BMW's notorious fuel pump problems due to "lack of maintenance"?

No one is bemoaning maintenance and repair bills, the proper context is during the lifespan of the automobile. You shouldn't have to fork over MAJOR repair money at fewer than, let's say, 50,000 miles.

I would argue the posters who have experienced few problems are the exception, not the norm.


Racist? Where did you get that from? This entire thread is ridiculous.


Why does he assume they're Americans? Why not Asian or European owners?

 

[antiqueshell]

It's typical internet rumor mill if you ask me.

I have owned several VWs and all with only basic maintenance have been just about flawless, they all have over 150k miles on them.
It's true that in the US the folks that buy European models usually can't afford to maintain them or don't care to and beat the snot of of them. I find that one of the best things about a European car is that usually anything that is failing will usually give you plenty of warning time before it actually fails entirely.

I currently own a 1994 Honda Accord, and while it only has 130k miles on it, there have been many problems, even with good maintenance done.