Which oils keep things cleaner?

[ka9mnx]

Originally Posted by 53' Stude
Originally Posted by ka9mnx
Originally Posted by Ether
I believe that MOST modern high quality oils are very good at preventing Engines from becoming dirty in the first place,but they're pretty ineffective at actually cleaning things up.

Yea. I thought his question was about keeping and engine clean. Not cleaning it?



Good point. Good info though by ether

Can anyone tell me why HDEO oils like Rotella are good at cleaning and keeping stuff clean. Is it the heady add pack?

Thanks everyone, keep the replies coming

Diesel engine oils have to deal with soot. PCMO deals with carbon and fuel dilution and the acids formed with fuel/oil.

 

[Ether]

Originally Posted by ka9mnx
Originally Posted by Ether
I believe that MOST modern high quality oils are very good at preventing Engines from becoming dirty in the first place,but they're pretty ineffective at actually cleaning things up.

Yea. I thought his question was about keeping and engine clean. Not cleaning it?



Yes.I just wanted to highlight the point about cleaning,because some people buy into the false belief that a modern engine oil will clean up a dirty engine.The purity of modern Group 2/3 base oils are a major factor as to the minimal cleaning effect.

 

[alarmguy]

Originally Posted by 53' Stude
I mean as in which oils have you folks used that keeps your engines clean. I always thought a quality conventional or synthetic at say 5k oci's would do that.


Any API certified oil conventional or synthetic will keep your engine clean.

We are no longer in the dark ages, all modern motor oils will achieve the same results, as much as we like to think otherwise and as much as we like to think we are smarter then the public by looking at the make up of these oils, it doesnt matter anymore.
At one time it did but the new standards and testing methods combined with the invention of "computers" a few short decades ago as well as lab testing equipment and the fact that the additive packages of these oils are now manufactured by a small handful of companies has standardized the production and compliance testing of the latest API (or any other) standards required by engine manufacturers.

Hate to be the kill joy but doesnt matter if you use Super Tech or Mobile 1. Doesnt matter if conventional or synthetic
Doesnt matter how much "detergent" you see in a formulation or not. If following the owners manual your engine will stay clean.

For others remember the question is to "keep an engine clean" NOT clean an abused and dirty engine. If you want to clean a dirty engine, then frequent oil changes with a C - rated oil. If not stick with S

Another point - too much detergent is no good. Remember the best anti wear agent is the OIL, not additives, in C rated oils there is a "balance" of detergents and anti wear agents, too much detergent washes away anti wear agents film on engine parts. Its why, to chose an oil based on your owners manual and dont think too much about anything else. )

 

[ka9mnx]

Originally Posted by Ether
Originally Posted by ka9mnx
Originally Posted by Ether
I believe that MOST modern high quality oils are very good at preventing Engines from becoming dirty in the first place,but they're pretty ineffective at actually cleaning things up.

Yea. I thought his question was about keeping and engine clean. Not cleaning it?



Yes.I just wanted to highlight the point about cleaning,because some people buy into the false belief that a modern engine oil will clean up a dirty engine.The purity of modern Group 2/3 base oils are a major factor as to the minimal cleaning effect.

This was not a negative remark to your post. You DID bring up my comment in your post. I was trying to bring the group back on target!

 

[53' Stude]

Originally Posted by ka9mnx
Originally Posted by Ether
Originally Posted by ka9mnx
Originally Posted by Ether
I believe that MOST modern high quality oils are very good at preventing Engines from becoming dirty in the first place,but they're pretty ineffective at actually cleaning things up.

Yea. I thought his question was about keeping and engine clean. Not cleaning it?



Yes.I just wanted to highlight the point about cleaning,because some people buy into the false belief that a modern engine oil will clean up a dirty engine.The purity of modern Group 2/3 base oils are a major factor as to the minimal cleaning effect.

This was not a negative remark to your post. You DID bring up my comment in your post. I was trying to bring the group back on target!


Thanks gents for the insight and info

 

[SonofJoe]

If you really want to keep your engine clean, use a decently specced, heavy Group II based HDDO monograde.

The main culprit in laying down most deposits is the polymeric viscosity index improvers you have in all multigrades. Take away the VII & it's bye bye dirty pistons! By going heavy (eg SAE 40) you'll keep the oil's Noack volatility to a minimum so you'll minimise
base oil vapour recycling through the PCV system, burning & gunking up your pistons that way. If you can find the monograde version of an oil brand that also exists as a multigrade, you can generally assume it's massively over formulated in terms of its DI additive content (which is no bad thing).

Having said that, keeping your engine clean is only one of many considerations when you're trying to formulate a 'balanced' oil. Personally I'd try to avoid obsessing about it!

 

[CT8]

Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Probably any good brand name oil these days that has a good detergent pack. Here's 5W-20 full synthetic VOA comparisons of the total ppm amount of deterrent additive pack for example. Mobil 1 has less detergents than most of the others, yet Mobil 1 keeps engines very clean inside. And as others have said, not running the oil past it's useful life has a lot to do with how clean the engine remains.

Whbat detergents are those? and is the list up to date? It is like referring [for example]to Amsoil literature 5 years old it is out of date.

 

[slomo]

Originally Posted by Zee09
PUP goes black real quick in even low mileage vehicles


Could be from the engine condition and not the oil itself. I doubt it was formulated to turn black within a few miles.

slomo

 

[slomo]

Originally Posted by ka9mnx
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Probably any good brand name oil these days that has a good detergent pack. Here's 5W-20 full synthetic VOA comparisons of the total ppm amount of deterrent additive pack for example. Mobil 1 has less detergents than most of the others, yet Mobil 1 keeps engines very clean inside. And as others have said, not running the oil past it's useful life has a lot to do with how clean the engine remains.

I think Mobil1 relies on PAO for engine cleanliness?


I have yet to see that Mobile 1 or even Amsoil has any group 4 or 5 ingredients. It's never stated on their bottling that I've seen. Show me the money.....

slomo

 

[slomo]

Originally Posted by SonofJoe
If you really want to keep your engine clean, use a decently specced, heavy Group II based HDDO monograde.

The main culprit in laying down most deposits is the polymeric viscosity index improvers you have in all multigrades. Take away the VII & it's bye bye dirty pistons! By going heavy (eg SAE 40) you'll keep the oil's Noack volatility to a minimum so you'll minimise
base oil vapour recycling through the PCV system, burning & gunking up your pistons that way. If you can find the monograde version of an oil brand that also exists as a multigrade, you can generally assume it's massively over formulated in terms of its DI additive content (which is no bad thing).

Having said that, keeping your engine clean is only one of many considerations when you're trying to formulate a 'balanced' oil. Personally I'd try to avoid obsessing about it!





VII and cleanliness are two different animals. First is supposed to ensure the oil is at rated say 40 spec at 100C. Finally, cleaning comes from other additives that have nothing to do with viscosity. Show us some proof please. Show us those dirty pistons.

slomo

 

[irv]

Originally Posted by slomo
Originally Posted by Zee09
PUP goes black real quick in even low mileage vehicles


Could be from the engine condition and not the oil itself. I doubt it was formulated to turn black within a few miles.

slomo


What I think as well. My son's new to him 08 Malibu with 142,000 kms on it got its first oil change shortly after we purchased it. Dino, cheap bulk oil was likely used prior as per the receipts we received when we purchased the car.
I changed it out and added 5 liters of of PUP and a TG filter. In short order, imo, the oil turned dark, which I attribute to it cleaning out the gunk from the previous cheap oil changes.
We just did another oil change a couple weeks ago as I wanted a fresh OC/filter in there for the winter months. The oil only had roughly 3,000 kms on it when we changed it just recently.
Imo, Pennzoil Oils do an excellent job of cleaning out gunk/sludge and they sure quiet down engines, imo, as well.

I run Pennzoil in my Ram and my wife's Impala and have since new (wife's car had 20,000 kms on it at purchase) and neither OC comes out dark/black like my son's oil did on his car.

 

[dave1251]

Originally Posted by slomo
Originally Posted by ka9mnx
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Probably any good brand name oil these days that has a good detergent pack. Here's 5W-20 full synthetic VOA comparisons of the total ppm amount of deterrent additive pack for example. Mobil 1 has less detergents than most of the others, yet Mobil 1 keeps engines very clean inside. And as others have said, not running the oil past it's useful life has a lot to do with how clean the engine remains.

I think Mobil1 relies on PAO for engine cleanliness?


I have yet to see that Mobile 1 or even Amsoil has any group 4 or 5 ingredients. It's never stated on their bottling that I've seen. Show me the money.....

slomo



There are a few Mobil and Amsoil grades with a good slug of PAO. It will not be advertised on their bottles.
https://www.amsoil.com/lit/databulletins/g2880.pdf
https://mobiloil.com/en/motor-oils/mobil-1/mobil-1-advanced-fuel-economy#0W-20

https://exxonmobilchemical.ulprospe...6&e=244631&culture=en-us&u=1

 

[slomo]

Originally Posted by dave1251
Originally Posted by slomo
Originally Posted by ka9mnx
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Probably any good brand name oil these days that has a good detergent pack. Here's 5W-20 full synthetic VOA comparisons of the total ppm amount of deterrent additive pack for example. Mobil 1 has less detergents than most of the others, yet Mobil 1 keeps engines very clean inside. And as others have said, not running the oil past it's useful life has a lot to do with how clean the engine remains.

I think Mobil1 relies on PAO for engine cleanliness?


I have yet to see that Mobile 1 or even Amsoil has any group 4 or 5 ingredients. It's never stated on their bottling that I've seen. Show me the money.....

slomo



There are a few Mobil and Amsoil grades with a good slug of PAO. It will not be advertised on their bottles.
https://www.amsoil.com/lit/databulletins/g2880.pdf
https://mobiloil.com/en/motor-oils/mobil-1/mobil-1-advanced-fuel-economy#0W-20

https://exxonmobilchemical.ulprospe...6&e=244631&culture=en-us&u=1


Nor was it advertised in the links you provided.

The Exxon link you provided, that spectrasyn 8 is a base stock only. Not bottled Mobile 1 oil we can buy at walmart. So again, someone please show us where ANY USA made Mobile 1, ANY flavor of Amsoil, Royal Purple or any other brand are truly group 4 or 5 oils. Redline and Motul are real synthetics/ group 4 or 5.

Why is it not advertised on their bottles? Guess in the States, all they need is that fabulous word "synthetic". That will fool 99% of us for sure.

slomo

 

[PimTac]

It's Mobil, not Mobile.

 

[slomo]

So back to the OP's question. Rislone is the best for engine cleanliness by far. Great grand pa used it, grand pa used it, dad uses it and I do too. Tried and true, been around for decades for a reason. Our oil is so clean, when we change it, you have to step outside in the sun to make out the oil level on the stick.

slomo

 

[SonofJoe]

Originally Posted by slomo
Originally Posted by SonofJoe
If you really want to keep your engine clean, use a decently specced, heavy Group II based HDDO monograde.

The main culprit in laying down most deposits is the polymeric viscosity index improvers you have in all multigrades. Take away the VII & it's bye bye dirty pistons! By going heavy (eg SAE 40) you'll keep the oil's Noack volatility to a minimum so you'll minimise
base oil vapour recycling through the PCV system, burning & gunking up your pistons that way. If you can find the monograde version of an oil brand that also exists as a multigrade, you can generally assume it's massively over formulated in terms of its DI additive content (which is no bad thing).

Having said that, keeping your engine clean is only one of many considerations when you're trying to formulate a 'balanced' oil. Personally I'd try to avoid obsessing about it!





VII and cleanliness are two different animals. First is supposed to ensure the oil is at rated say 40 spec at 100C. Finally, cleaning comes from other additives that have nothing to do with viscosity. Show us some proof please. Show us those dirty pistons.

slomo



If you're going to argue engine oil with me you either have to be very, very brave or incredibly stupid.

My money's on the latter...

 

[dave1251]

I see you are unable to gather information and make a educated conclusion.

 

[FCD]

Generally if you want an oil that will clean your engine look for high TBN ( 8-10 ) and high Sulphated ash ( over 1% ).

Both high TBN and high Ash mean the oil is loaded with detergents and dispersants.

An oil loaded with detergents and dispersants will mean the oil has more reserve alkalinity, which means it can neutralize acids in the oil longer.

An oil heavily loaded with detergents, dispersants and antiwear additives like HDEOs almost always have over 1% ash because when burnt they leave behind more deposits.

This means that while it may clean your engine more aggressively it might not be the best thing for catalytic converters or other emissions equipment.

I feel comfortable using an oil with 1.45% ash in my 1988 Escort because it has no emissions equipment at all.
Some people warn against high SAPS oils because in theory they should be more likely to cause things like spark plug fouling but from my experience the difference between using an oil with 0.8 and another with 1.45 is negligible.

 

[Patman]

Originally Posted by SonofJoe



If you're going to argue engine oil with me you either have to be very, very brave or incredibly stupid.

My money's on the latter...


My money's on the latter as well, especially considering he just recommended adding Rislone to the engine!

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted by slomo

Nor was it advertised in the links you provided.

The Exxon link you provided, that spectrasyn 8 is a base stock only. Not bottled Mobile 1 oil we can buy at walmart. So again, someone please show us where ANY USA made Mobile 1, ANY flavor of Amsoil, Royal Purple or any other brand are truly group 4 or 5 oils. Redline and Motul are real synthetics/ group 4 or 5.

Why is it not advertised on their bottles? Guess in the States, all they need is that fabulous word "synthetic". That will fool 99% of us for sure.

slomo


MSDS for M1 EP 0w-20. There are a variety of other grades and products that also have varying amounts of PAO in them. This one shows 60-70%.