Which of the following could potentially protect the best?

[Alan]

In the VW VR6 motors the timing chains components(guides and rails)seem to be prone to failure below 150K miles when thinner oils are used.

Currently I have close to 7k on a M1 0W40 interval which meets VW's 502.00 tough specs but does this oil really provide the best possible timing chain component protection?

Could Delo 400,M1 T&SUV,GC or Syntec 5W-50 provide any potentially better protection then the current M1 0W40?

 

[buster]

Does this car call for a 40wt oil? If so, M1 SUV/Delvac 1 or Amsoil 5w-40 would be my choice. Another German exotic calling for an exotic oil...geeeezzz.

 

[JHZR2]

Is it perhaps actually because the guides and rails are plastic?

They usually are, and it is as such a materials issue.

My 83 MB 300D turbodiesel had less than 2 degrees (smallest measurement) on its timing chain at 215k. However, the plastic guides and rails were the weak part that needed replacement (or would break) long before the chain wore out.

JMH

 

[Thatwouldbegreat]

quote:

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Originally posted by Alan:
In the VW VR6 motors the timing chains components(guides and rails)seem to be prone to failure below 150K miles when thinner oils are used.

Currently I have close to 7k on a M1 0W40 interval which meets VW's 502.00 tough specs but does this oil really provide the best possible timing chain component protection?

Could Delo 400,M1 T&SUV,GC or Syntec 5W-50 provide any potentially better protection then the current M1 0W40?

---

I ran our Passat GLX VR6 motors on Castrol Syntec 5W-50, switched to Mobil 1 15W-50, and settled on running Redline 10W-40.

I drove these engines hard, really really hard, and the only thing that hurt this engine at 160,000 was a Ford F-150 running a stop sign.

I'd use Redline 10W-40, Mobil 1 10W-40 EP, or Mobil 1 Truck and SUV 5W-40...but Mobil 1 0W-40 should be good too.

[ September 08, 2005, 09:44 PM: Message edited by: Thatwouldbegreat ]

 

[Quest]

guide and rails (tensioner) for chain driven engine system is known to be a wear and tear item so don't expect you can extend their useful life beyond their intended service intervals.

Running high EP additive oil such as DELO as opposed to properly speced gasoline engine oils shouldn't matter much as far as extending their life for these are mostly, afterall, plastic stuff (mostly made of nylon materials)

 

[Alan]

quote:

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Originally posted by buster:
Does this car call for a 40wt oil? If so, M1 SUV/Delvac 1 or Amsoil 5w-40 would be my choice. Another German exotic calling for an exotic oil...geeeezzz.

---

Yep.
This 2000 engine calls for a VW 502.00 rated oil but in years prior to that VW dealers recommended 15W40's or 20W50's for the VR6 motor.

 

[moribundman]

Why do some of you call an oil that meets VW 502 exotic? There's nothing exotic about it. It's mundane, it's the VW bread-and-butter spec for most gas engines that are not on LongLife Service.

As for whether or not a 0W-40 is a good idea in the VR6, uh...

 

[buster]

It just seems that the German cars require oils with more specifications. Most American and Japanese cars can and do run on any GF-4 rated oil. Most are 20wt to 30wt oils. The Corvette and Viper as well. What makes German cars so "needy"? They do make probably the nicest cars on the road today. Are their engines that much more sophisticated? I do realize the car talked about here isn't all that exotic, but this goes for most German cars.

 

[peterr]

Most Porsche owners I know run Mobil 1 15W-50 in summer and 0w40 in winter if they winter drive them. You see thinner weights used in more recent 987,996 and 997 models, but I have had many people react that 0w40 is too thin an oil for an older Porsche.

Unlike some other MFRs Porsche is not as dogmatic with weird specs but definitely the history has been on the Thick oil side, with a strong emphasis on synthetic for the last 15 years. Almost no one I know runs Dino oil, unless its a car that had been run on Dino all its life and leaks if syn is used (like my second car).

Currently I have 15w40 HDEO in mine, bt only beacuse I am Auto-RXing it. After that it will be back to 0w40 synthetic, which most of my pals would think of as thin.

For fun, try going to a Porsche mechanic and asking for a fill of 5w30 dino oil.

Also, the Porsche oil change intervals are insane. I think current models spec something like 12,000 on full syn.

 

[moribundman]

quote:

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It just seems that the German cars require oils with more specifications. What makes German cars so "needy"?

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Ford, GM and Benzler (Chrycedes?), Honda, Toytota, etc, don't have their own oil specs? Get out of here.

Once again, perception is everything.

 

[Geoff]

quote:

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Originally posted by buster:
It just seems that the German cars require oils with more specifications. Most American and Japanese cars can and do run on any GF-4 rated oil. Most are 20wt to 30wt oils. The Corvette and Viper as well. What makes German cars so "needy"? They do make probably the nicest cars on the road today. Are their engines that much more sophisticated? I do realize the car talked about here isn't all that exotic, but this goes for most German cars.

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I once had someone tell me that the Germans won't buy a car unless it can sustain 100 mph. There are lots of stories about taking an American model or engine and selling it in Germany (I can think of the Ford Taurus with 2.5L 4 cyl and an attempt in the late 60s of using an SBC in an Opel model). Nearly always the engines just could not take sustained high speed driving in testing and failed. There are different design assumptions at work here.

I have also lived in Japan. They have a national 100kph (62 mph) speed limit. Any car sold there must have a buzzer or chime that kicks in at 100 kph and stays on until speed is reduced. One can speculate on Japanese design goals, but sustained high speed driving is probably not as high on the list as it is in Germany.

We could look up the national highway speed average in the US, but I would guess its around 65-70 mph. American manufacturers want to build SUVs or cars with big displacement engines. The big engines are happy with tall gearing just above idle speed at those speeds, hardly a workout for any oil.

 

[moribundman]

quote:

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I once had someone tell me that the Germans won't buy a car unless it can sustain 100 mph.

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This claim is apocryphal and fallacious. Not all cars sold in Germany can go and keep going 100 mph.

quote:

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There are lots of stories about taking an American model or engine and selling it in Germany... Nearly always the engines just could not take sustained high speed driving in testing and failed.

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I the late '80s we often chased Camaros which were very popular with the locally stationed US armed forces personel. Camaros tended to overheat quickly when racing an Opel Manta, VW Scirocco, Golf, or 318i on the Autobahn. There was a rumor amongst us back then that Camaros had no oil cooler, which made them unsuitable for highspeed chases. Based on this, you may be on to something with your claim. As for US vehicles sold in Germany, they were not more prone to breakinng down at high speed, not even the back then slightly popular LeBaron convertible. If I'm not mistaken, Jeeps may have had Renault motors.

quote:

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One can speculate on Japanese design goals, but sustained high speed driving is probably not as high on the list as it is in Germany.

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Toyota used to be, and maybe still is the #1 brand in terms of most reliable cars in Germany. I've always seen Japanese cars on the Autobahn and they did not appear to break down more than domestic cars.

I agree on your last point regarding differences in engine design and driving conditions.

 

[buster]

quote:

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Ford, GM and Benzler (Chrycedes?), Honda, Toytota, etc, don't have their own oil specs?

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Yeah, a GF-4/GF-3 5w30 API oil. Not a VW 500.3345wq4safw4q4 HT/HS of 3.588980.

 

[Alan]

Well anyways i've settled on a mix of 4qts of Delo 400,1 qt of GC and a 1/2 qt of Syntec 5W-50.
BTW,
Yes this is a "leftover oils in my basment" cocktail.