When is GM going to learn? (long)

[lght1]

Hi

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The Series III version of this engine is, to my ear (and butt), noticeably better than even its Series II predecessors.

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The differences between the Series II "L36" and Series III "L26" engines is the "drive-by-wire T/B, aluminum UIM, powdered connecting rods, a new PCM to match the added needs of the T/B and the ultra fast o2 sensor. A different "close-coupled" cat converter is added.

Most of these added benefits is likely more relevant to the L32 with the exception of course, of the UIM.

The L32 gets the Gen 5 Eaton.

Both engines gain better seals and A/C compressor mounting is now direct to engine.

 

[ekpolk]

Don't the Series-III engines also have a cast aluminum oil pan, instead of the S-II's stamped steel? I read that this supposedly helps improve the engine's NVH. Tomorrow morning I'll have to peer under to see what's there.

 

[dailydriver]

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Originally posted by lght1:
Hi

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Here's an interesting article to add fuel to the fire:

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Still rather have the 'stang.

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RIGHT!

Or either (C6, Z06) '06 Vette.

BTW; NO ONE I know of with any of the above mentioned cars spends any time at the stealership. They are too busy out enjoying them and blowing away imports!

 

[jsharp]

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Originally posted by Thorn:
Here's an interesting article to add fuel to the fire:
Wall Street Journal

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And here I was thinking I'd be buying an American car next year. I may have to look at Nissans instead.

Seriously, I'm one of the "I don't care where it comes from as long as it's what I want" guys. I'd rather buy US made all things being equal, but this shows just how hard it is to determing what "Made in USA" really is...

 

[CBDFrontier06]

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BTW; NO ONE I know of with any of the above mentioned cars spends any time at the stealership. They are too busy out enjoying them and blowing away imports!

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I'll pass along this 'story' to my cousin with the Z06 that has been towed to the shop 3 times for failing to start when it was time to go home from work

 

[dailydriver]

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Originally posted by Win:
They are all ugly. The Honda looks cheap.

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How true. It's sad because the last gen. M3 was actually a real good looking car in a "mean bulldog" sort of way. WTH were you thinking/smoking with these new styles, BMW??

 

[lght1]

Hi

I havent seen that in any lists. I was just re-checking sources and nothing listed about the pan material itself but there is a improved sealer used at all junctions including the sump.

There is also an improved balancer called " DAMPOLATOR VIBRATION BALANCER" which is supposed to smooth things out a bit.

This engine has a returnless fuel system now. This was one of the areas on my UIM which needed epoxy as it is unneeded for my old girl.

They are now calling for 5w-30 rather than 10w-30 on the SII.

I suspect that the powdered rods will be welcomed addition for the track crowd, esp for those L32 owners or those with L26 which will be adding either turbos or eatons to their machines.

 

[LTVibe]

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Originally posted by Thorn:
Here's an interesting article to add fuel to the fire:
Wall Street Journal

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More fuel for that fire:

Level Field Institute

(The LFI was mentioned in the WSJ article.)

 

[JohnBrowning]

I have seen Toyota's with 400,000-500,000 miles on them and all origanal under the hood expect filters, plugs and wires and belts. I have seen hundreds with 300,000 miles and all origanal power train other then normal wear/maintnece items. Water Pumps do not fail often on most Toyota's.

I am currently manageing a Parts Store while I continue to look for something better. I can tell you that if not GM we would surely go out of business. We sell mostly parts for GM vechiles. Pads,Shoes,Rotors,Hubs/Bearings,coil,ignition module, windo motors,wiper motor, wiper pulse module,Power Steeering Pumps,water pumps,intake manifolds,heater cores,gaskets,alternators,Maf and Map sensors are our bread and butter!!!! To make matters even worse I get these requests mostly for 1995-2004 GM products.

ROughly 70% of the parts on my tractor trailer of parts are for GM applications and I sell most of that each week and need to wait for my next truck to come in!

 

[lght1]

Hi

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I have seen Toyota's with 400,000-500,000 miles on them

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From what I have seen, a rare beast indeed. The camry's at work drive like they have 500,000 miles on them but are only showing 100k and under.

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I have seen hundreds with 300,000 miles and all origanal power train other then normal wear/maintnece items.

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I have had excellent service from my "H" cars the last 15 years and 750,000 miles, but with the added advantage of not having corrosion problems on any of them. I even had the oem exhaust on all cars at time of trade.

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I can tell you that if not GM we would surely go out of business.

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From depending on any of my GM cars to put food on the table, the specter of starvation surely would loom on the unfortunate horizon.

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Maf and Map sensors are our bread and butter!!!! To make matters even worse I get these requests mostly for 1995-2004 GM products.

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I frequent various GM performance - enthusiest sites and have never known such a rash of MAF/MAP failures even when the tiny/thin wire is subjected to frequent cleaning for optimal performance.

They can, and sometimes will go bad, but in 750,000 miles of 3800s, I have never seen one fail for me. I have replaced my OEM with a MAF of a different year because of the ported T/B and the need to match flow to tables. If these MAFs were a pandemic, it would have shown up by now at the performance forums.

None of my three cars over a 15 year period and 750,000 mile run ever needed a power steering pump. I swapped out an alternator at 177,000 once because i could hear a little bearing noise, but that is hardly a real issue at that mileage.

You like toyota and that is your perogative. But because I need dependability and a platform I know I can trust I shall continue to buy what has always got me to work and home again.

 

[vad]

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Originally posted by lght1:
But because I need dependability and a platform I know I can trust I shall continue to buy what has always got me to work and home again.

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You better get busy then, buddy.
GM is losing customers every day, mostly to the Japanese.
Toyota has set a target to sell, by 2010, 10.3m vehicles, with sales expected to double in Asia and jump 35% in North America.

 

[JHZR2]

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Originally posted by JohnBrowning:
Pads,Shoes,Rotors,Hubs/Bearings,

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What do pads, shoes, and rotors have to do with the quality or build of a vehicle??? they have more to do with the intelligence of the user, and their acknowledgement of the laws of physics... Their apparent lack of same is mainly why hubs/bearings go south.

I wonder what percenage of GM owners mod their vehicles, vs. standard toyota model owners... I also wonder what percentage of GM owners are DIY or use local garages (both of which will frequent auto parts stores), as compared to toyota owners (who in my experience mostly frequent dealerships).

I also wonder what proporion of vehicles on the road are GM, vs what proportion are Toyota... individual year sales are irrelevant.

And I wonder how many of those GM parts are for radiators, bearings, suspension parts, etc. for Geo prisms...

JMH

 

[brianl703]

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Originally posted by JohnBrowning:
Maf and Map sensors are our bread and butter!!!!

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Surely, then, you know about the MAF sensor problem that Corollas have? The guy at the local Toyota dealership said he sells a lot of 'em.

 

[brianl703]

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Originally posted by JHZR2:
I also wonder what percentage of GM owners are DIY or use local garages (both of which will frequent auto parts stores), as compared to toyota owners (who in my experience mostly frequent dealerships).

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Also consider what percentage of GM parts are available in the aftermarket vs. what percentage of Toyota parts aren't (and, for the dense, therefore MUST be purchased at a dealer).

 

[ekpolk]

JMH:

I agree that user habits often have much to do with the longevity of such replaceable items. That said, this latest exchange does remind me of another difficulty I had with the second of my pair of 98 Regals, which I had forgotten when lght asked me about them way earlier in this thread -- the rotors repeatedly warped. They'd been turned several times, and on the last time, I was warned that they'd ground them to the point at which they could not be done again safely. Of course, my wty expired shortly thereafter. In my case, anyway, I know I'm not the culprit. The only other car I've driven that's had this problem was my 88 Civic, but that was only after a moron at PepBoyz grossly overtorqued the lugs when putting my wheels back on (have not been back since they refused to own up -- I saw him do it...). No other car has done this. Of course, this is but one data point.

Just took a look under the Series III powered rental car. The oil pan is indeed cast aluminum, and a nice looking piece at that -- too bad it's hidden way down under there.

I assume that this must have a substantial effect of adding rigidity and stability to the bottom of the engine, or they'd never have bothered getting rid of the tried and true stamped steel part.

 

[Rickey]

quote:Originally posted by JHZR2:
I also wonder what percentage of GM owners are DIY or use local garages (both of which will frequent auto parts stores), as compared to toyota owners (who in my experience mostly frequent dealerships).

Also consider what percentage of GM parts are available in the aftermarket vs. what percentage of Toyota parts aren't (and, for the dense, therefore MUST be purchased at a dealer).(and, for the dense, therefore MUST be purchased at a dealer).(and, for the dense, therefore MUST be purchased at a dealer). At a considerable premium I might add.

 

[ekpolk]

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Originally posted by brianl703:

quote:

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Originally posted by JHZR2:
I also wonder what percentage of GM owners are DIY or use local garages (both of which will frequent auto parts stores), as compared to toyota owners (who in my experience mostly frequent dealerships).

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Also consider what percentage of GM parts are available in the aftermarket vs. what percentage of Toyota parts aren't (and, for the dense, therefore MUST be purchased at a dealer).

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I agree that there are far fewer Toyota replacement parts available in the aftermarket.
Of course, that pretty strongly implies that there's far less demand for them in the first place. . .

 

[brianl703]

I think it's more due to GM having their own AC Delco brand to distribute replacement parts, as does Ford with Motorcraft.

It's probably also due to GM using more domestically-sourced parts in their vehicles. Many of the companies who produce parts for GM also produce them for the aftermarket.

As far as parts demand goes, consider that most cars are stolen for their parts and then consider what usually takes the top 10 spots on the most-stolen cars list in the various metro areas.

 

[BlownF150]

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Originally posted by ekpolk:
JMH:

I agree that user habits often have much to do with the longevity of such replaceable items. That said, this latest exchange does remind me of another difficulty I had with the second of my pair of 98 Regals, which I had forgotten when lght asked me about them way earlier in this thread -- the rotors repeatedly warped. They'd been turned several times, and on the last time, I was warned that they'd ground them to the point at which they could not be done again safely. Of course, my wty expired shortly thereafter. In my case, anyway, I know I'm not the culprit. The only other car I've driven that's had this problem was my 88 Civic, but that was only after a moron at PepBoyz grossly overtorqued the lugs when putting my wheels back on (have not been back since they refused to own up -- I saw him do it...). No other car has done this. Of course, this is but one data point.

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You got a set of rotors that were badly cast...pure and simple. Happens often and it goes for imports as well as domestics. 1997 4Runner had a set of front rotors that did the same...no amount of turning will cure that problem.

 

[brianl703]

What do you think of Chinese-made rotors? They're really cheap...