Wheel comes off vehicle while driving, Honda Fit

[ltslimjim]

So, a friend of my wife and mine buys a new Honda Fit, 2011 Sport; an automatic. This was just 2 or 3 days ago.

The first time I see the car was yesterday, I even test drove it for fun. She mentions in passing about going by 'an auto parts store' upon recommendation to get a set of wheel lugs that include 1 lock nut for each wheel.

Here is what happens earlier this afternoon:

Driving home on a local street just a few miles from home, you guessed it, the front wheel comes off!

We get a call about it just a couple hours ago. The car needs to be towed, it was the front right wheel that came off.

I've only seen pictures so far, but there is definitely damage to the front right wheel well area; not sure what kind of damage to the wheel mounting hardware etc; hopefully anything in that area is okay.

Total mileage on the vehicle? Only 250 miles or so.

Oh, and the very nice stock wheels could be goners too from the sound of it(the wreck probably happened at around 15-20 MPH, the driver recognizes noise from the wheel and it comes off while trying to pull over safely).

How did this happen?

Incorrect part was recommended and offered to be installed by the counter salesman. The 'retrieved' lugs from the wheel that came off, are stripped out. Upon checking the other wheels, their replacement lug nuts could be moved by hand as well!

The part was chosen and recommended by an employee behind the counter(an 'apparent' guru) that apparently stated initially that they(name of auto parts chain that will not be disclosed) didn't show a set that was a replacement for the vehicle; a lug nut set with lock nuts.

This Fit came with some nice 15" wheels and apparently are a high 'stolen rate' type item. Now, with a legal battle to ensue, not sure if they can even get a new vehicle to replace this one.

Oh, how did the employee determine what would work and subsequently offer to put them on and 'take care' of our lady friend?

He pulls several packs off the shelf and starts trying to thread them on and the first one that 'feels' right he chooses.

...and of course our friend, a young lady, is trusting and believes the guy. She even sees him torque down the replacement nuts.

How can he have been so irresponsible or blatantly incompetent to just go by feel and NOT realize that failure to match the OE lug nuts thread type? Their own computers did not show the part he chose to match the vehicle!

Part used was Dorman lug set # 711-241, lock nut/key included.

Checking on various parts websites for this part number, it doesn't claim to match her Fit as a replacement part; a stated 1/2" - 20 on the package.

I believe OE size is M12 - 1.5, not sure yet, just going by what I'm hearing so far.

Just from comparing the original lugs initially upon arrival to help out, these aftermarket ones you can clearly see the replacements are too large! The threads in the replacement lugs, at least on the wheel that came off, were stripped, so obviously couldn't be torqued down properly.

 

[urchin]

It is really the owner's fault because why the in world would you spend all that moola on a new car and cheap out on locking lug nuts from the dealer that are OEM?

I KNOW that Honda offers them (Geniune Honda Accesory) for a reasonable price because we stocked them at my old dealers.

 

[simple_gifts]

Wow, I was pretty sure counter people aren't authorized to work on cars, wonder why.

 

[FowVay]

I thought the locking lug nuts were only one per wheel. Did they replace the entire set of lug nuts?

 

[bdcardinal]

And that is why when I don't see a fitment part listed for a vehicle I refuse to find something that "will work." Also at my dealer the only things that parts dept is involved in stalling is accessories like bed liners and mudflaps.

 

[ltslimjim]

Originally Posted By: urchin
It is really the owner's fault because why the in world would you spend all that moola on a new car and cheap out on locking lug nuts from the dealer that are OEM?

I KNOW that Honda offers them (Geniune Honda Accesory) for a reasonable price because we stocked them at my old dealers.


Speaking with the girl and her family apparently this is true. At the time of purchase, they turned down the offer for the lug nuts from the Dealer.

I agree this was obviously a mistake.

Still, the owner is someone that does not know cars; no disrespect but this is a young woman(so not surprising in truth) and the employee at the auto part store takes it upon himself to ignore the computer:

He recommended AND installed incorrect parts.

I don't know what position this employee 'technically' holds, but if he isn't someone authorized to touch a customers vehicle, why did he?

I just wish I was there. I was at work and did not even see the car until the replacements were chosen/installed. I even drove the car with these on the vehicle!

It is easy to second guess in hindsight.

There is plenty of blame to go around. You've got a case of the 'trusted' not blind(auto store employee of unknown rank/etc) leading the blind(out of high school kid that gets their first vehicle).

 

[urchin]

Originally Posted By: bdcardinal
And that is why when I don't see a fitment part listed for a vehicle I refuse to find something that "will work." Also at my dealer the only things that parts dept is involved in stalling is accessories like bed liners and mudflaps.


Some people do use two per wheel, figuring it would slow a thief down further.

 

[ltslimjim]

Originally Posted By: FowVay
I thought the locking lug nuts were only one per wheel. Did they replace the entire set of lug nuts?


To clarify: All lugs on all wheels were replaced, with 1 locking lug nut per wheel. It was a pack that included replacements for each wheel.

 

[Skid]

This happened to me, too, when I bought my 2006 xB (new). I bought it with the dealer option alloys, and when I got home, I noticed that one of the wheels was missing a lug nut. Then I noticed that all the lugs were only finger tight.

 

[urchin]

Originally Posted By: ltslimjim

Speaking with the girl and her family apparently this is true. At the time of purchase, THEY turned down the offer for the lug nuts from the Dealer.



You can't tell me that her father didn't have enough sense to know better, he obviously was basically handling the deal for her.

 

[ltslimjim]

Originally Posted By: bdcardinal
And that is why when I don't see a fitment part listed for a vehicle I refuse to find something that "will work." Also at my dealer the only things that parts dept is involved in stalling is accessories like bed liners and mudflaps.


I agree this is good protocol. An accessory which does not in any way affect the mechanical functionality of the vehicle, I can see a parts person helping 'out of courtesy'.

This was a case of misplaced trust, assumptions, etc.

I just hate seeing another 'unsuspecting' person that doesn't know much of anything about a car beyond the brake/gas pedals, nearly getting killed. They probably would've been seriously hurt or dead if this had happened on the interstate.

Legally, who is responsible? Sounds like a legal battle. The insurance will definitely fight the auto parts store over this.

 

[ltslimjim]

Originally Posted By: Skid
This happened to me, too, when I bought my 2006 xB (new). I bought it with the dealer option alloys, and when I got home, I noticed that one of the wheels was missing a lug nut. Then I noticed that all the lugs were only finger tight.


That was from the dealer, it sounds like in your experience? The dealer did a fine job in regards to the wheel lugs, it was a case of bad choices at the auto parts store instead of going back the next day to the dealer.

Originally Posted By: urchin
Originally Posted By: ltslimjim

Speaking with the girl and her family apparently this is true. At the time of purchase, THEY turned down the offer for the lug nuts from the Dealer.



You can't tell me that her father didn't have enough sense to know better, he obviously was basically handling the deal for her.


Yes, you are correct. Her dad was involved in helping the deal. He himself isn't an all out car buff, though. He too trusted this particular store employee who appeared so confident and knowledgeable.

I will say that the red flag should have been 'I can find one that will fit', no pun intended.

Like I said, I wasn't there and I'm just relaying the story and how legally this may look.

 

[swirlparanoid]

wow glad nobody was hurt, that must be a scary feeling

 

[Kestas]

Originally Posted By: ltslimjim
To clarify: All lugs on all wheels were replaced, with 1 locking lug nut per wheel. It was a pack that included replacements for each wheel.

I still don't see why all lug nuts were replaced. I'm sure there was nothing wrong with the OEM lug nuts. Was this for appearance?

 

[ltslimjim]

Originally Posted By: Kestas
Originally Posted By: ltslimjim
To clarify: All lugs on all wheels were replaced, with 1 locking lug nut per wheel. It was a pack that included replacements for each wheel.

I still don't see why all lug nuts were replaced. I'm sure there was nothing wrong with the OEM lug nuts. Was this for appearance?


Probably. It was not an individual lug replaced, apparently it was a 'replace all lugs and get a lock w/ key' master-replacement pack. One key overall, 1 lug that locks per wheel(or 4 total in the 'kit').

Another 'could have' gone with a single lug per wheel approach instead of buying the most expensive thing at the auto store; probably for appearance? Yes.

 

[GMBoy]

I have to ask the question....is the girl cute? I am guessing she is very attractive for the parts guy to offer to install them for her. Just saying. Doesn't matter why he did this, but he sure shouldn't have sold a part # not for the vehicle and also should not have installed them.

Good luck with this case, it will be interesting.

 

[wkcars]

I wonder if things like this will cause the auto parts stores to stop helping people diagnose things or install things, or come out with a waiver that people have to sign before they do anything on your car.

 

[urchin]

Originally Posted By: ltslimjim
Her dad was involved in helping the deal. He himself isn't an all out car buff, though.


I still don't understand why they would have refused to just have Honda install the OEM locks, they would have charged for the parts but many times they will install OEM things like this for free.

You don't have to be a car buff to know that fooling around with wheel lugs could lead to disaster.

It just goes to show you how basic common sense has left the building today!

 

[OrdnanceMarine]

Originally Posted By: urchin
It is really the owner's fault because why the in world would you spend all that moola on a new car and cheap out on locking lug nuts from the dealer that are OEM?

I KNOW that Honda offers them (Geniune Honda Accesory) for a reasonable price because we stocked them at my old dealers.


I'm seriously hope that you're joking with this comment.

 

[ltslimjim]

Originally Posted By: urchin
Originally Posted By: ltslimjim
Her dad was involved in helping the deal. He himself isn't an all out car buff, though.


I still don't understand why they would have refused to just have Honda install the OEM locks, they would have charged for the parts but many times they will install OEM things like this for free.

You don't have to be a car buff to know that fooling around with wheel lugs could lead to disaster.

It just goes to show you how basic common sense has left the building today!


The vehicle left the Dealer with proper/original lug nuts.

A shop that this girl's dad uses, checked the car over(since they will be performing the oil changes, explained about the TPMS, following an OLM etc); and THEN mentioned about the wheels potentially being stolen; suggesting the lock nuts the dealer offered might have been a good idea. So, the fam's shop said go back to the dealer or look at a local auto parts store, it does not matter to go to the auto part store instead off the dealer IF the part store had the right part and the RIGHT part was installed.

Instead of driving back to the dealer, she initially went by the auto parts store to see what was offered.

At the dealer, it appeared as something not necessary, and merely optional.

And really, that is debatable. Whether getting lock nuts or keeping the OEM which perform the 'job' off of the car lot.

It was only after taking the advice of the trusted long-used shop of 'considering' to get some lock nuts installed with the nice wheels that came with the car, that the girl went by the auto part store. Initially, it was viewed as something not worth paying for at the dealer.

AND quite frankly: Had the right part been available and installed, this would not have happened.

The store employee made all of the wrong moves. Period. When life/death was in his hands, he was irresponsible and played the 'pretend you're smart' move.

If the store had the right p/n for the vehicle, it probably would've been just fine. Even if he had installed it! (not sure, but just saying)

So, the old 'hindsight is always 20/20' here doesn't mean all common sense is gone from the owner.

It's a 'newb to cars' girl that was trusting of someone that represented 'customer service' for vehicles, and LUG NUTS are one of the simplest/most basic things ANYONE with experience on a car should have 'common sense' with!

You see a chef in apron in the kitchen. He/she has the uniform, works for a known chain of restaurants, and common sense says the guy must know what he's doing or at least is more competent than you are. Look at me, I've never cooked in my life, I'll trust the chef to cook my meal.

Of course 'fooling around with the lugs' could lead to disaster.

It would've been one thing if the girl buys the car, refuses the dealer part over price alone(it wasnt seen as a need item initially), and later buys the wrong lug nut set herself and installs them improperly/does not truly install them at all.

...that said. It was the customer service person that took it upon himself. You can bash the girl in hindsight, but really that's being quite harsh, IMO, and not putting the blame where it starts.

No one is all knowing about all things, and generally women aren't as technically inclined as men anyway; GENERALLY speaking.

It's like never cooking a day in your life, as a guy, and then trusting your grand mother in following one of her recipes; with her walk you through it. Yet, it ends in disaster when it was GRANNY that failed to specify a key step or ingredient, getting caught 'in the moment'.

Yes, common sense doesn't always come through for all parties. The ball was in the employee's court when he went ahead; of what I'd imagine is PROBABLY store policy, in BOTH areas: Wrong part recommendation AND working on a customers car using the WRONG part.

Yes, that is failure to use common sense.

Yet, it happens all of the time. Right? Yes, we're all human.

Are you really saying the inexperienced, newb girl was the culprit? That is debatable for many reasons(an owner should know how to care for a car argument, which is another conversation).

I blame the guy that didn't know what he was doing. He obviously has some ways to go before being a 'good' customer service person. If it's HIS profession, why doesn't he KNOW about that aspect? Why wasn't he honest instead of bull-headed?

PS: I respect all of the women that do know/learn about vehicles(so, I'm not saying a woman is incapable just to put that disclaimer here), I'm talking generalities here so I HOPE no offense is taken to the ladies on this site. The context of this discussion is in regards to technical care for a vehicle. Most young women in this country probably do not know how to care for a vehicle...not that younger men aren't that much further along either.