What upgrade would you made?

[Josh97]

Hi,

I've been using the regular synthetic Mobil 1 5W30 for close to 180k miles on a Camry V6 and OEM Toyota oil filter with strict changes at every 5k miles.

Lately, I've noticed the gasket seals are kind of showing their age and small patches of leakage shows here and there. The engine underneath the seals is kind of dirty from the accumulated oil.

My local dealer quoted me a $900 bill in order to change the front and back gaskets.

Even without the possible leakage, what kind of oil would you upgrade to, taking the high mileage into consideration, and what type of oil filter?

Thank you.

 

[c3po]

 

[OVERKILL]

Keep doing what you've been doing, if the engine INSIDE is clean, then it has been working.

I would get a second price on getting the gaskets done.

 

[Josh97]

c3po, thank you, my very first post but heard about this site for quite a while. Used it to get on the Mobil 1 Syn diet back in the day when the car was new

Also, driving is 40 miles / day in Southern California where at least for now, there are no freezing temperatures.

 

[JHZR2]

I would change nothing, just fix issues that time and heat have created, and drive. M1 HM 10w30 may be a good choice to help condition the seals to get a bit more life, and unless you live someplace where it is really cold in the winter, the 10w30 will be just fine.

But no oil fixes mechanical issues if they exist.

 

[sicko]

If you're going to try and fix it with oil, then I'd say MaxLife (either semi-synthetic or full synthetic) or if you wanted to stick with M1 then M1 HM.

But as mentioned, fixing the gaskets is really the "correct" thing to do

 

[Geonerd]

Valve cover gaskets? $900!?

Do it yourself for $50 in parts, and be sure to take pictures of your valve train. BITOG loves pics of engine guts!

The one thing I would 'upgrade' is your oil change interval. 7~8K will not begin to be a problem. 5K is a waste of good oil, IMO.

If you're itching to change something, you might try a high mileage mix. HM oil just might swell the gaskets enough to slow the leak (but I wouldn't bet a whole lot on it!) M1 HM in 5w30 or 10w30 are both good stuff. The 10w30 specs suggest a greater proportion of 'real' grp 4/5 syn. It's a little thicker at high temp too, which might fractionally reduce the leaking, as well as any internal oil consumption.

 

[HTSS_TR]

Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Keep doing what you've been doing, if the engine INSIDE is clean, then it has been working.

I would get a second price on getting the gaskets done.


I would clean the engine and tighten the valve cover bolts then change oil to one of the high mileage oil (Valvoline MaxLife is one of them) to see if it will reduce/stop the leak(s). If not I would get an estimate from independent garage, they are usually less than 1/2 what dealer charges.

 

[willix]

That's actually not unusual to pay $900 to do front & rear seals. To go inside the timing cover & behind the flywheel is a fair amount of labor. If its just the oil pan gaskets thats way out of line.

 

[Gary Allan]

That's crank seals. I think in his case that would be left and right

He also called them "gaskets" and not seals. This would suggest valve cover gaskets are at least in the mix there.

 

[Josh97]

Oh yeah, even with a quick net search I figured I'd sped max $150 on parts at the time of that $900 quote.
Thing is, I would really love to change the gaskets myself, have a torque wrench and only thing I need, I'd figured about 5-6 hours to do it. I've done other maintenance on the car myself and really enjoy it, I just need to find some time then.

The insides must be pretty clean, but it's just a guess. Little to no residue after oil change in the pan and from the angle with the flashlight, it looks pretty clean

Geonerd, you might be right on the change intervals, I mean, it's syn after all. I'll give it a try with the HM as some you have suggested.

As far as the oil filter, it's just a filter, doesn't matter that much, right?

 

[Geonerd]

6 hours sounds a little high, even for a V engine. (We are talking valve cover gaskets, right?) The rear bank can't be that hard to access, can it

Assuming the car uses rubber gaskets, all you should need are the tools, time, new gasket set, and a tiny quirt of high quality RTV.

As HTSS mentions, just snugging the cover bolts may help. On my Honda, the cover washers are half rubber half washer. They tend to 'sag' with age, reducing the sealing force. Shimming or replacing these washers can fix a leaky cover for pennies or a few dollars.

Any decent filter will do. Just avoid the DREADED OCOD!

 

[Josh97]

Gary Allan caught me red handed, I'm all over the place

Geonerd, yes valve cover gaskets and rear bank only. It is some work, as willix put it, the back part of the engine is a little harder to reach. 6hrs with pictures taking included, it might be less if I'll skip the washing my hands, getting the camera part... j/k
It might be less but am not that much of a mechanic, don't get me wrong, I love to get my hands dirty and would tweaker around the car all day.. but within my limits, I'll probably take about 5-6 hrs do do the whole job properly.

 

[willix]

Its a bad Idea to snug up cam cover bolts. They most likely are not loose. If you are doing RT. & LF. or frt & rear seals and you don't work on DOHC V6's very often you should give yourself a few days. Either the engine or the trans has to come out to replace the rear seal.

I am a bit confused about what actually is happening here. Is it just me?

DOHC VC cover gaskets can be involved in intake removal may be needed and other components. I don't know much about the Toyota V6. I would not jump in blind, do some research. Get a factory manual if doing crank seals.

 

[wiswind]

What year is your camry?
If it is one that has the 1MZFE 3.0L motor.
These pictures from my 2003 Sienna, with the 3.0L motor might help.
I have a series for the front valve cover.......the rear requires that the upper intake manifold be removed......and the cowl with the windshield wipers removed......and I have both of those shown in the pictures in the Sienna folder.
The 1MZFE motor in the 1998-2003 Sienna has coolant hoses to and from the throttle body.......
It took me a lot of time to remove the upper intake manifold.....
I needed a 8mm hex bit......and my set only went up to 7mm.....and then feeling around and finding those 3 different sized bolts on the back side of the upper intake manifold took some time.
However.....I list the bolt sizes and indicate where they are.....so that should save you some time.

The job is very do-able.....but lots of bending over and REACHING....so plan lots of time so that you can take your time, with rest breaks.

You will want to clean out the inside of the valve covers.......simple green worked well for me.
VERY IMPORTANT that you verify that the PCV valve is clear AND that the baffel inside the valve cover is not clogged up with junk......preventing flow through the PCV valve.

I HIGHLY recommend the Felpro PermaDry gaskets.......$14.23 both valve cover gaskets and the 6 spark plug tube seals....through Rockauto

Here is a link to the folder of pictures......
http://rides.webshots.com/album/576572371kcnZsT?start=12

For those who like valvtrain pictures......
A direct to the valvetrain.....87K miles, 2003 Sienna, 5K mile OCI with Valvoline "synthetic".......by previous owner.
[img:left]

[/img]

My 5K OCI with Redline should clean mine up.....no sludge....just discoloration and thin layer of "tar on the insides of the valve covers.

My '96 3.8L windstar valvetrain area at over 220K miles.....first time the valve covers were off......a couple of weeks ago.

[img:left]

[/img]

 

[wiswind]

About oil and filter.....
The oil you have been using is a good oil.
I got to thinking that you might wonder when you see the picture in my sienna fold of the 2 oil filters.
I found that the filter for my Windstar was a direct fit onto the 1MZFE motor.....
SAME size, except longer......same bypass valve pressure setting......
WIX 51516
The TOYOTA Denso filters you have been using are well regarded and very reasonable in price.
So.....unless you see something bad when you remove the valve cover.....then I see no reason to change what you have been doing in regards to oil.

If you find that you would like more cleaning.....you might look into the Mobil 1 HM oil.....if it is offered in the 5w30.
I use Redline, which I order online through OGracing for just over $109 for a case of 12 quart bottles.

However, valve cover gaskets leaking is not any reason to change to a different oil or OCI.......new gaskets are cheap.......if you are doing the work yourself.

 

[artificialist]

If you are replacing the crank seal, the timing belt will have to come off. At that point you might as well replace the cam seals, too.

At 180,000 miles, it would also make sense to replace the timing belt, water pump, and the pulleys attached to the timing belt.