What it's like to fly an airliner.
- Thread starter Astro14
- Start date
Originally Posted By: PimTac
Considering the responsibilities of the flight deck crew, yes they are underpaid. Some of the salaries for new pilots on the regional airlines might shock you.
Yep.
$18K a year to start...after getting a conditional ATP which leaves you, minimum, $100K in debt for the 1,200 hours of flight time...so, you're making less than a Panera associate while operating a complex, high performance machine with people's lives in your hands...
And folks wonder why we have a pilot shortage!!
Considering the responsibilities of the flight deck crew, yes they are underpaid. Some of the salaries for new pilots on the regional airlines might shock you.
Yep.
$18K a year to start...after getting a conditional ATP which leaves you, minimum, $100K in debt for the 1,200 hours of flight time...so, you're making less than a Panera associate while operating a complex, high performance machine with people's lives in your hands...
And folks wonder why we have a pilot shortage!!
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Originally Posted By: DeepFriar
What services/tasks does dispatch provide to each flight? Are they separate from weather? Do they do crew scheduling as well? How many flights or legs does a pilot at the majors fly per month?
Dispatch: There is a joint responsibility for the safety of the flight shared by the Captain and the Dispatcher. Dispatchers check weather, maintenance status and plan the flight. Captain approves the plan, or modifies it if needed (route, fuel, alternates, etc.). Dispatchers monitor the flight while it's in the air. They typically work 20-30 flights in an eight hour shift. Fewer if they're working international. Dispatchers will let you know about changes in forecast, or field conditions. We communicate all the time in flight, generally via ACARS, but via SATVOICE if needed. Dispatchers can declare an emergency and coordinate the field (fire and rescue), maintenance, and customer service efforts for an airplane that needs to divert or make an emergency landing. We're busy flying the airplane and getting it set up for the contingency while dispatch coordinates the response. They're great folks that make up a critical part of our flight operations team.
Flight Time: FARs limit pilots to 100 hours per month and 1,000 hours per year.
It's important to understand what flight time is. Flight time starts when I release the brake on pushback and ends when I set the brake at the gate. All the stuff that happens before the flight: the checking of weather, plotting an oceanic crossing, reading the maintenance history on the airplane, getting to the airport, meeting and briefing the flight attendants, talking with customer service, conducting a preflight inspection of the airplane, programming the flight management computers, checking and configuring the cockpit systems and yes, talking with passengers and coordinating service requests, all of that...is all OFF THE CLOCK. We're not getting paid when we're chatting with you in the cockpit, or making certain that everything is ready for a safe flight, or dealing with boarding issues. Similarly, after the flight, when we're standing by the door saying goodbye, or checking on your stroller (I've fetched hundreds of strollers over the years), we're not getting paid.
So, a typical pilot is flying 1,000 hours a year, and getting paid for those hours, but working closer to 2,000 or more, depending on the nature of their flights. The guys flying 5 legs a day, like the Express crews, are usually at work for 12-14 hours, and getting 5 hours of pay, each day they're flying.
A guy like me, flying international flights, will work several "trips" or pairings a month. EWR-DUB, for example is a three day trip and pays 15 hours. If I fly 5 of those and get paid 75 hours, that's a typical month. Pairings are built to comply with legal duty period and rest requirements. Some are more "efficient" than others. Usually the long-haul flights get more hours for each day that you're at work. The airline schedules us by what needs to be flown. In the weak flying months, like February, for example, we might all be scheduled to fly 70 hours. But then in the peak flying times: Holidays, or summer, we might be scheduled to fly 88+ hours/month. It varies by fleet (airplane type), seat (Captain or FO) and domicile (base). We have 2 - 2.5 FOs for each Captain in the widebody fleets because so many of those flights are augmented by one or two FOs...and as we change flying, the ratio of augmented flights can change, so that FOs might have more, or less, flying than captains on the same routes in the same airplane. Marketing drives what airplanes fly, from what domicile said, and on what routes, so then the crew planning folks have to build the pairings to accomplish that flying...and it's always changing.
Don't ever ask a pilot "what route do you fly?"...because in 20 years, I've never, ever flown just one route...it doesn't work that way. Crew planning builds pairings to accomplish the planned flying that was created by marketing and sold months, even years, in advance. By the time it gets to us, we bid for flying, not trips, or routes to particular cities, but flying, based on parameters too numerous to mention here. We put our desires (days off, trip departure time, and over a hundred potential characteristics that a paring might have) into a computer that runs through everyone in the same fleet/seat/domicile and assigns pairings/flying in seniority order. Those pairings may, or may not, be to the cities you like, depending on how the computer awarded them based on your desired parameters and your seniority in the bid process.
What services/tasks does dispatch provide to each flight? Are they separate from weather? Do they do crew scheduling as well? How many flights or legs does a pilot at the majors fly per month?
Dispatch: There is a joint responsibility for the safety of the flight shared by the Captain and the Dispatcher. Dispatchers check weather, maintenance status and plan the flight. Captain approves the plan, or modifies it if needed (route, fuel, alternates, etc.). Dispatchers monitor the flight while it's in the air. They typically work 20-30 flights in an eight hour shift. Fewer if they're working international. Dispatchers will let you know about changes in forecast, or field conditions. We communicate all the time in flight, generally via ACARS, but via SATVOICE if needed. Dispatchers can declare an emergency and coordinate the field (fire and rescue), maintenance, and customer service efforts for an airplane that needs to divert or make an emergency landing. We're busy flying the airplane and getting it set up for the contingency while dispatch coordinates the response. They're great folks that make up a critical part of our flight operations team.
Flight Time: FARs limit pilots to 100 hours per month and 1,000 hours per year.
It's important to understand what flight time is. Flight time starts when I release the brake on pushback and ends when I set the brake at the gate. All the stuff that happens before the flight: the checking of weather, plotting an oceanic crossing, reading the maintenance history on the airplane, getting to the airport, meeting and briefing the flight attendants, talking with customer service, conducting a preflight inspection of the airplane, programming the flight management computers, checking and configuring the cockpit systems and yes, talking with passengers and coordinating service requests, all of that...is all OFF THE CLOCK. We're not getting paid when we're chatting with you in the cockpit, or making certain that everything is ready for a safe flight, or dealing with boarding issues. Similarly, after the flight, when we're standing by the door saying goodbye, or checking on your stroller (I've fetched hundreds of strollers over the years), we're not getting paid.
So, a typical pilot is flying 1,000 hours a year, and getting paid for those hours, but working closer to 2,000 or more, depending on the nature of their flights. The guys flying 5 legs a day, like the Express crews, are usually at work for 12-14 hours, and getting 5 hours of pay, each day they're flying.
A guy like me, flying international flights, will work several "trips" or pairings a month. EWR-DUB, for example is a three day trip and pays 15 hours. If I fly 5 of those and get paid 75 hours, that's a typical month. Pairings are built to comply with legal duty period and rest requirements. Some are more "efficient" than others. Usually the long-haul flights get more hours for each day that you're at work. The airline schedules us by what needs to be flown. In the weak flying months, like February, for example, we might all be scheduled to fly 70 hours. But then in the peak flying times: Holidays, or summer, we might be scheduled to fly 88+ hours/month. It varies by fleet (airplane type), seat (Captain or FO) and domicile (base). We have 2 - 2.5 FOs for each Captain in the widebody fleets because so many of those flights are augmented by one or two FOs...and as we change flying, the ratio of augmented flights can change, so that FOs might have more, or less, flying than captains on the same routes in the same airplane. Marketing drives what airplanes fly, from what domicile said, and on what routes, so then the crew planning folks have to build the pairings to accomplish that flying...and it's always changing.
Don't ever ask a pilot "what route do you fly?"...because in 20 years, I've never, ever flown just one route...it doesn't work that way. Crew planning builds pairings to accomplish the planned flying that was created by marketing and sold months, even years, in advance. By the time it gets to us, we bid for flying, not trips, or routes to particular cities, but flying, based on parameters too numerous to mention here. We put our desires (days off, trip departure time, and over a hundred potential characteristics that a paring might have) into a computer that runs through everyone in the same fleet/seat/domicile and assigns pairings/flying in seniority order. Those pairings may, or may not, be to the cities you like, depending on how the computer awarded them based on your desired parameters and your seniority in the bid process.
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Originally Posted By: Mr Nice
Grossly underpaid by how much 25, 40, 50% ?
Astro pretty much hit the nail on the head there. The regional guys really have it rough with pay and hours. I did everything I could to make extra cash when I was home. Like Astro mentioned a HUGE student loan to pay (almost paid) and rent plus utilities, food, entertainment (barely) it sucks. You really have to like flying to push through that. I had a few buddies stop flying altogether and pursue other careers. But once you pay your dues and get hired at a major you get a wonderful raise.
Grossly underpaid by how much 25, 40, 50% ?
Astro pretty much hit the nail on the head there. The regional guys really have it rough with pay and hours. I did everything I could to make extra cash when I was home. Like Astro mentioned a HUGE student loan to pay (almost paid) and rent plus utilities, food, entertainment (barely) it sucks. You really have to like flying to push through that. I had a few buddies stop flying altogether and pursue other careers. But once you pay your dues and get hired at a major you get a wonderful raise.
Originally Posted By: SEMI_287
Originally Posted By: Mr Nice
Grossly underpaid by how much 25, 40, 50% ?
Astro pretty much hit the nail on the head there. The regional guys really have it rough with pay and hours. I did everything I could to make extra cash when I was home. Like Astro mentioned a HUGE student loan to pay (almost paid) and rent plus utilities, food, entertainment (barely) it sucks. You really have to like flying to push through that. I had a few buddies stop flying altogether and pursue other careers. But once you pay your dues and get hired at a major you get a wonderful raise.
Lots of careers pay little when first starting out, what about their pay in 20 years ?
Student loans are a fact of life for 80% of students who want an education past high school.
Originally Posted By: Mr Nice
Grossly underpaid by how much 25, 40, 50% ?
Astro pretty much hit the nail on the head there. The regional guys really have it rough with pay and hours. I did everything I could to make extra cash when I was home. Like Astro mentioned a HUGE student loan to pay (almost paid) and rent plus utilities, food, entertainment (barely) it sucks. You really have to like flying to push through that. I had a few buddies stop flying altogether and pursue other careers. But once you pay your dues and get hired at a major you get a wonderful raise.
Lots of careers pay little when first starting out, what about their pay in 20 years ?
Student loans are a fact of life for 80% of students who want an education past high school.
Originally Posted By: Mr Nice
Originally Posted By: SEMI_287
Originally Posted By: Mr Nice
Grossly underpaid by how much 25, 40, 50% ?
Astro pretty much hit the nail on the head there. The regional guys really have it rough with pay and hours. I did everything I could to make extra cash when I was home. Like Astro mentioned a HUGE student loan to pay (almost paid) and rent plus utilities, food, entertainment (barely) it sucks. You really have to like flying to push through that. I had a few buddies stop flying altogether and pursue other careers. But once you pay your dues and get hired at a major you get a wonderful raise.
Lots of careers pay little when first starting out, what about their pay in 20 years ?
Student loans are a fact of life for 80% of students who want an education past high school.
Depending on the airline it's great. At Southwest I'm making a good sum of money. At Air Wisconsin (US Airways express at the time) I made like 20k the first few years. $800 a month student loan, $500 rent plus utilities, $300 a month car payment plus insurance. It sucked. I don't want to disclose my salary publicly but 10 years in the business and 7 with SWA I'm more than comfy with a nice rainy day fund.
Originally Posted By: SEMI_287
Originally Posted By: Mr Nice
Grossly underpaid by how much 25, 40, 50% ?
Astro pretty much hit the nail on the head there. The regional guys really have it rough with pay and hours. I did everything I could to make extra cash when I was home. Like Astro mentioned a HUGE student loan to pay (almost paid) and rent plus utilities, food, entertainment (barely) it sucks. You really have to like flying to push through that. I had a few buddies stop flying altogether and pursue other careers. But once you pay your dues and get hired at a major you get a wonderful raise.
Lots of careers pay little when first starting out, what about their pay in 20 years ?
Student loans are a fact of life for 80% of students who want an education past high school.
Depending on the airline it's great. At Southwest I'm making a good sum of money. At Air Wisconsin (US Airways express at the time) I made like 20k the first few years. $800 a month student loan, $500 rent plus utilities, $300 a month car payment plus insurance. It sucked. I don't want to disclose my salary publicly but 10 years in the business and 7 with SWA I'm more than comfy with a nice rainy day fund.
Originally Posted By: Mr Nice
Originally Posted By: SEMI_287
Originally Posted By: Mr Nice
Grossly underpaid by how much 25, 40, 50% ?
Astro pretty much hit the nail on the head there. The regional guys really have it rough with pay and hours. I did everything I could to make extra cash when I was home. Like Astro mentioned a HUGE student loan to pay (almost paid) and rent plus utilities, food, entertainment (barely) it sucks. You really have to like flying to push through that. I had a few buddies stop flying altogether and pursue other careers. But once you pay your dues and get hired at a major you get a wonderful raise.
Lots of careers pay little when first starting out, what about their pay in 20 years ?
Student loans are a fact of life for 80% of students who want an education past high school.
Not too many jobs hold the responsibility of an airline pilot. Yes you can have student loans and get a low paying job behind a desk or maybe an analyst or whatever you pick. Just think the next time you board a regional with dozens of passengers to fly you somewhere. It's not like driving a car or a bus.
Originally Posted By: SEMI_287
Originally Posted By: Mr Nice
Grossly underpaid by how much 25, 40, 50% ?
Astro pretty much hit the nail on the head there. The regional guys really have it rough with pay and hours. I did everything I could to make extra cash when I was home. Like Astro mentioned a HUGE student loan to pay (almost paid) and rent plus utilities, food, entertainment (barely) it sucks. You really have to like flying to push through that. I had a few buddies stop flying altogether and pursue other careers. But once you pay your dues and get hired at a major you get a wonderful raise.
Lots of careers pay little when first starting out, what about their pay in 20 years ?
Student loans are a fact of life for 80% of students who want an education past high school.
Not too many jobs hold the responsibility of an airline pilot. Yes you can have student loans and get a low paying job behind a desk or maybe an analyst or whatever you pick. Just think the next time you board a regional with dozens of passengers to fly you somewhere. It's not like driving a car or a bus.
Originally Posted By: Mr Nice
Originally Posted By: SEMI_287
Originally Posted By: Mr Nice
Grossly underpaid by how much 25, 40, 50% ?
Astro pretty much hit the nail on the head there. The regional guys really have it rough with pay and hours. I did everything I could to make extra cash when I was home. Like Astro mentioned a HUGE student loan to pay (almost paid) and rent plus utilities, food, entertainment (barely) it sucks. You really have to like flying to push through that. I had a few buddies stop flying altogether and pursue other careers. But once you pay your dues and get hired at a major you get a wonderful raise.
Lots of careers pay little when first starting out, what about their pay in 20 years ?
Student loans are a fact of life for 80% of students who want an education past high school.
Look at it this way: Would you spend $80k for your 4 year college degree, then throw in another $120K to get your flight ratings and the required 1200 hours to be able to fly for a regional carrier at $24k per year? The regional carriers don't have a manpower issue, they have a pay issue. Now consider that there is no guarantee that you will get hired by a major airline where the salaries are much higher. Now you are stuck with a mountain of debt - and other obligations like a family, housing, car needs, etc. I'm extremely fortunate - I was hired at a major airline at a relatively young age. The future is bright because of the huge number of retirements of guys like myself in the coming years.
Again, if the regionals offered a reasonable salary to compensate for the expense, there wouldn't be a pilot shortage. Keep in mind, there are any number of medical issues that can ground a pilot at any time, so there is an added risk there as well. There are no guarantees.
Another perspective,
757Guy
Originally Posted By: SEMI_287
Originally Posted By: Mr Nice
Grossly underpaid by how much 25, 40, 50% ?
Astro pretty much hit the nail on the head there. The regional guys really have it rough with pay and hours. I did everything I could to make extra cash when I was home. Like Astro mentioned a HUGE student loan to pay (almost paid) and rent plus utilities, food, entertainment (barely) it sucks. You really have to like flying to push through that. I had a few buddies stop flying altogether and pursue other careers. But once you pay your dues and get hired at a major you get a wonderful raise.
Lots of careers pay little when first starting out, what about their pay in 20 years ?
Student loans are a fact of life for 80% of students who want an education past high school.
Look at it this way: Would you spend $80k for your 4 year college degree, then throw in another $120K to get your flight ratings and the required 1200 hours to be able to fly for a regional carrier at $24k per year? The regional carriers don't have a manpower issue, they have a pay issue. Now consider that there is no guarantee that you will get hired by a major airline where the salaries are much higher. Now you are stuck with a mountain of debt - and other obligations like a family, housing, car needs, etc. I'm extremely fortunate - I was hired at a major airline at a relatively young age. The future is bright because of the huge number of retirements of guys like myself in the coming years.
Again, if the regionals offered a reasonable salary to compensate for the expense, there wouldn't be a pilot shortage. Keep in mind, there are any number of medical issues that can ground a pilot at any time, so there is an added risk there as well. There are no guarantees.
Another perspective,
757Guy
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Originally Posted By: 757guy
Look at it this way: Would you spend $80k for your 4 year college degree, then throw in another $120K to get your flight ratings and the required 1200 hours to be able to fly for a regional carrier at $24k per year? The regional carriers don't have a manpower issue, they have a pay issue.
Push is going to come to shove on the 1200/1500 hour requirements. It will be interesting to watch. Unfortunate example of what happens when legislators get in a lather and feel they must "do something" so that they can appear to be responsive and not lose political face.I
I expect we're going to see a full court press by the airlines for more automation and/or "assistant pilots" on the ground "in case of emergency" (Note Astro's input on Dispatch's involvement via ACARS and satcom). Technically it could be done now; ask any drone pilot at Creech. The airline could then solve two problems at the same time - address the pilot shortage AND reduce personnel costs. That's just too enticing to airline management.
I fear that a pilot's life will continue to have serious uncertainties.
Look at it this way: Would you spend $80k for your 4 year college degree, then throw in another $120K to get your flight ratings and the required 1200 hours to be able to fly for a regional carrier at $24k per year? The regional carriers don't have a manpower issue, they have a pay issue.
Push is going to come to shove on the 1200/1500 hour requirements. It will be interesting to watch. Unfortunate example of what happens when legislators get in a lather and feel they must "do something" so that they can appear to be responsive and not lose political face.I
I expect we're going to see a full court press by the airlines for more automation and/or "assistant pilots" on the ground "in case of emergency" (Note Astro's input on Dispatch's involvement via ACARS and satcom). Technically it could be done now; ask any drone pilot at Creech. The airline could then solve two problems at the same time - address the pilot shortage AND reduce personnel costs. That's just too enticing to airline management.
I fear that a pilot's life will continue to have serious uncertainties.
Originally Posted By: 757guy
Originally Posted By: Mr Nice
Originally Posted By: SEMI_287
Originally Posted By: Mr Nice
Grossly underpaid by how much 25, 40, 50% ?
Astro pretty much hit the nail on the head there. The regional guys really have it rough with pay and hours. I did everything I could to make extra cash when I was home. Like Astro mentioned a HUGE student loan to pay (almost paid) and rent plus utilities, food, entertainment (barely) it sucks. You really have to like flying to push through that. I had a few buddies stop flying altogether and pursue other careers. But once you pay your dues and get hired at a major you get a wonderful raise.
Lots of careers pay little when first starting out, what about their pay in 20 years ?
Student loans are a fact of life for 80% of students who want an education past high school.
Look at it this way: Would you spend $80k for your 4 year college degree, then throw in another $120K to get your flight ratings and the required 1200 hours to be able to fly for a regional carrier at $24k per year? The regional carriers don't have a manpower issue, they have a pay issue. Now consider that there is no guarantee that you will get hired by a major airline where the salaries are much higher.
I have a friend who went through flight school with me develop health problems a few years into the regionals and can't fly anymore. He came in married with one child, had a second child and left divorced and broke.
Originally Posted By: Mr Nice
Originally Posted By: SEMI_287
Originally Posted By: Mr Nice
Grossly underpaid by how much 25, 40, 50% ?
Astro pretty much hit the nail on the head there. The regional guys really have it rough with pay and hours. I did everything I could to make extra cash when I was home. Like Astro mentioned a HUGE student loan to pay (almost paid) and rent plus utilities, food, entertainment (barely) it sucks. You really have to like flying to push through that. I had a few buddies stop flying altogether and pursue other careers. But once you pay your dues and get hired at a major you get a wonderful raise.
Lots of careers pay little when first starting out, what about their pay in 20 years ?
Student loans are a fact of life for 80% of students who want an education past high school.
Look at it this way: Would you spend $80k for your 4 year college degree, then throw in another $120K to get your flight ratings and the required 1200 hours to be able to fly for a regional carrier at $24k per year? The regional carriers don't have a manpower issue, they have a pay issue. Now consider that there is no guarantee that you will get hired by a major airline where the salaries are much higher.
I have a friend who went through flight school with me develop health problems a few years into the regionals and can't fly anymore. He came in married with one child, had a second child and left divorced and broke.
Many people here are likely unaware of the Ram Air Turbine in the electrical system. Given the tremendous reliability of the double and triple redundant power generation systems on even twin engined acft, how often is the RAT even tested? And, when tested, how is that done to insure that it works if ever needed?
Originally Posted By: DeepFriar
Many people here are likely unaware of the Ram Air Turbine in the electrical system. Given the tremendous reliability of the double and triple redundant power generation systems on even twin engined acft, how often is the RAT even tested? And, when tested, how is that done to insure that it works if ever needed?
Don't know how often the RAT is tested, but here's how:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zx4BeNwQ-b8
Many people here are likely unaware of the Ram Air Turbine in the electrical system. Given the tremendous reliability of the double and triple redundant power generation systems on even twin engined acft, how often is the RAT even tested? And, when tested, how is that done to insure that it works if ever needed?
Don't know how often the RAT is tested, but here's how:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zx4BeNwQ-b8
Thanks Brew. I couldn't quite tell how the fan was driven but it must be with an air source from that machine. I also notice ced that it appears to be multifunctional with the hydraulic lines running from it. With all the high tech associated with our aircraft these days, these RATs are very steam-punky and all the more cool for it. When it's time for the "last resort" DEPLOY THE WINDMILL GRIGGS! ".
Originally Posted By: DeepFriar
Thanks Brew. I couldn't quite tell how the fan was driven but it must be with an air source from that machine. I also notice ced that it appears to be multifunctional with the hydraulic lines running from it. With all the high tech associated with our aircraft these days, these RATs are very steam-punky and all the more cool for it. When it's time for the "last resort" DEPLOY THE WINDMILL GRIGGS! ".
Sure, it's steampunk and old school. But without engines running, it provides critical hydraulic power to enable control of the airplane.
Just ask these guys: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gimli_Glider
Thanks Brew. I couldn't quite tell how the fan was driven but it must be with an air source from that machine. I also notice ced that it appears to be multifunctional with the hydraulic lines running from it. With all the high tech associated with our aircraft these days, these RATs are very steam-punky and all the more cool for it. When it's time for the "last resort" DEPLOY THE WINDMILL GRIGGS! ".
Sure, it's steampunk and old school. But without engines running, it provides critical hydraulic power to enable control of the airplane.
Just ask these guys: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gimli_Glider
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Great thread, as long time passenger and once long ago VFR rated pilot, Im an enthusiast and fly commercially a lot and I end up talking to lots of pilots about their machines.
The 57 pilots all tell me that it has great performance even with an engine out, and the same guy told me it has tons of rudder authority and handles great.
Same guy remarked they had to deliver one to the plant for work and they he and the co-pilot had the 57 unladed for the trip and had it in a vertical climb for an impressive amount of time.
Thanks for all the info
UD
The 57 pilots all tell me that it has great performance even with an engine out, and the same guy told me it has tons of rudder authority and handles great.
Same guy remarked they had to deliver one to the plant for work and they he and the co-pilot had the 57 unladed for the trip and had it in a vertical climb for an impressive amount of time.
Thanks for all the info
UD
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Originally Posted By: Astro14
Just ask these guys: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gimli_Glider
No doubt about it. The Gimli glider landing stands out in an aviation history full of daring saves. It was a point of shame for us at Honeywell as the fuel quantity indicating system played a part in the incident chain. I don't recall or maybe never knew what was wrong with the probes that day. Amazing action by crew.
Just ask these guys: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gimli_Glider
No doubt about it. The Gimli glider landing stands out in an aviation history full of daring saves. It was a point of shame for us at Honeywell as the fuel quantity indicating system played a part in the incident chain. I don't recall or maybe never knew what was wrong with the probes that day. Amazing action by crew.
Originally Posted By: DeepFriar
Originally Posted By: Astro14
Just ask these guys: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gimli_Glider
No doubt about it. The Gimli glider landing stands out in an aviation history full of daring saves. It was a point of shame for us at Honeywell as the fuel quantity indicating system played a part in the incident chain. I don't recall or maybe never knew what was wrong with the probes that day. Amazing action by crew.
No way I would lay the blame, or any shame, on Honeywell. The FQIS failed. Parts fail.
The decision to drip-stick the airplane and allow it to proceed without the FQIS is the reason they got in trouble. The ground crew failed to properly convert the dripstick readings into lbs and, instead, got KG, causing the airplane to have half the fuel they thought.
I'll have to check our MEL, but I've come too close to running out of gas in an F-14 due to FQIS failure to be talked into flying a 767 without working fuel quantity.
Originally Posted By: Astro14
Just ask these guys: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gimli_Glider
No doubt about it. The Gimli glider landing stands out in an aviation history full of daring saves. It was a point of shame for us at Honeywell as the fuel quantity indicating system played a part in the incident chain. I don't recall or maybe never knew what was wrong with the probes that day. Amazing action by crew.
No way I would lay the blame, or any shame, on Honeywell. The FQIS failed. Parts fail.
The decision to drip-stick the airplane and allow it to proceed without the FQIS is the reason they got in trouble. The ground crew failed to properly convert the dripstick readings into lbs and, instead, got KG, causing the airplane to have half the fuel they thought.
I'll have to check our MEL, but I've come too close to running out of gas in an F-14 due to FQIS failure to be talked into flying a 767 without working fuel quantity.
