What Is Your Dealer's Policy On NPF?

[The Critic]

NPF= No problem found.

Let's say you bring your vehicle to a dealership for a problem that should be covered under the manufacturer's original bumper-to-bumper warranty.

However, the technician is unable to duplicate your concern and therefore, says NPF, meaning no problem found.

Some dealers will charge the customer 1 hr labor as the technician still has to be paid for their work. Some dealers will just eat the labor charge. Other dealers don't pay the techs if they are unable to find a problem.

What is YOUR dealer's policy?

 

[JHZR2]

Having problems with the altima?

 

[The Critic]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Having problems with the altima?

Nah, I was just curious.

 

[Chris142]

At my shop If I cant find a problem I don't charge the customer. But I'm no dealer.

 

[Cogito]

How about the case where you report a problem, the service department says they fixed it, then tomorrow the problem returns because they fixed the wrong thing. Should the customer get a refund, or pay for the first 'repair?'

 

[The Critic]

Originally Posted By: Cogito
How about the case where you report a problem, the service department says they fixed it, then tomorrow the problem returns because they fixed the wrong thing. Should the customer get a refund, or pay for the first 'repair?'

I have been told that in those situations, the dealer may efund the labor charges, but not the cost of the part.

 

[rjundi]

$40 flat rate for diagnosis which is pretty cheap IMHO at well reputed Subaru dealer.

 

[Scott_Tucker]

At my shop (which is not a dealership) if we drive the car and can not duplicate the problem we will call the customer and tell them. They can either bail then, for no charge, until the problem gets more consistent or have us continue trying to duplicate with the knowledge that they will be charged for our time. We usually err on the side of the customer though as far as the amount of time we charge them for since we don't want to [censored] them off. This is pretty much how all the shops in the area operate. Its fair to both parties.

Diagnosis is a 'you get what you pay for' job. If you are not paying for difficult diagnosis you are usually going to get screwed in the end by having to replace parts you didn't need. It is not something you want to cheap out on.

 

[NHHEMI]

If the vehicle is under factory warranty it does not matter if the problem was found or not the customer isn't supposed to be charged. Doesn't matter what mfg it is. I have been in that situation many times as a customer and never been charged( GM, Chrysler, Ford, Toyota )and also worked in dealer parts and service( Ford )and the customer was never charged.

If your dealer is charging you because it found nothing refuse to pay the bill and then pick up your cell in front of the service manager and immediately call the car mfg and complain. I bet you don't even get 1-800 dialed before there is a change of heart.

 

[bradepb]

when I was a tech at ford dealers warranty customers would never pay anything problem found or not, but many times we could find something to charge back the labor to ford under warranty reimbursment. Ford would pay diagnosis time for most verifiable customer complaints, and you could get time from ford for such things as "customer states car is hesitating when cold, adjust choke and fast idle" yea it was a while ago that I worked at a ford dealer lol

 

[Gary Allan]

Ford was traditionally more liberal for the tech. Mopar was not. Looking up any TSB's etc..etc., my buddy said that he was a half hour into the thing before doing diagnosis.

 

[punisher]

Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Ford was traditionally more liberal for the tech. Mopar was not.


Absolutely true. I often wondered how Mopar techs made a living......an honest living.

In our shop (Ford/Linc/Merc), NPFs had to be signed off by the shop foreman or the service writer if the foreman wasn't available/fired/hungover. Ford was pretty liberal with performance techs as we could usually get .8 labor for EEC and DCL diag (I had those "12650" ops commited to memory). I always felt bad for the front end guys, and the trim techs as well, having to chase down phantom squeeks and rattles that only happen "over this one bump in my driveway".

 

[rationull]

My experiences:

Non-dealer: I took our Suburban in with suspicion of a failed intake gasket. They couldn't find any evidence of that or any other problems despite coolant in the oil, but I still paid for an hour of diagnostic time. I was a little annoyed because I'm pretty sure there is a problem and wanted to pay them to fix it, but even if they didn't find a problem, I wouldn't have expected not to have to pay for their time. I probably just won't go there again (not because of the charge, but because they didn't find a problem).

Local Honda dealer: I took my car in for a few complaints under warranty. Some they addressed, some were NPF. In fact, some they actually "fixed" but I don't think it turns out they even needed to. I was not charged for diagnostic time on the NPF complaints. This is what I expected since I bought the car from them and they were not labor-heavy diagnostics.

Local Nissan dealer: This one was above and beyond IMO. Friend had a ~15 year old Maxima with 100k or more miles on it with an intermittent CEL and rough idle problem IIRC. Took it to the Nissan dealer and we talked to the tech, who complained about all the electronics and the wiring harness on the Maxima as being a PITA to diagnose problems with. They were not able to reproduce the problem (don't blame them) despite keeping the car for 2 or 3 days and trying multiple times. When we went to pick it up, they didn't charge anything since they didn't fix anything. I expected them to charge for at least an hour of diagnostic time considering the age of the car and the nature of the complaint. Then again I guess I don't actually know how much "diagnostic" work they really did.

 

[kb01]

Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
I have been in that situation many times as a customer and never been charged( GM, Chrysler, Ford, Toyota )and also worked in dealer parts and service( Ford )and the customer was never charged.


I always thought that was SOP until I got my '09 Prius that throws CEL's a few times a year. It's a corporate car and I'm required to take it to the nearest dealer. They charge my company to scan the code and reset the light (misfires). It's possible they're just reaming business customers but it's very aggravating.

They've also charged my company when I've taken it in for rattling coming from the dashboard. They can't find any problems and charge us as a result. I just live with the noise and let my company cut a check every few months.

 

[rjundi]

Originally Posted By: rjundi
$40 flat rate for diagnosis which is pretty cheap IMHO at well reputed Subaru dealer.


Actually the charge is only when you pass the bumper to bumper coverage. Otherwise Subaru eats the cost and but only allows for one "loose gas cap" CEL clearing.

 

[NHHEMI]

Originally Posted By: kb01
Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
I have been in that situation many times as a customer and never been charged( GM, Chrysler, Ford, Toyota )and also worked in dealer parts and service( Ford )and the customer was never charged.


I always thought that was SOP until I got my '09 Prius that throws CEL's a few times a year. It's a corporate car and I'm required to take it to the nearest dealer. They charge my company to scan the code and reset the light (misfires). It's possible they're just reaming business customers but it's very aggravating.

They've also charged my company when I've taken it in for rattling coming from the dashboard. They can't find any problems and charge us as a result. I just live with the noise and let my company cut a check every few months.


Definite reamage going on. If I owned that company I would have my legal dept get in touch with that dealer for a refund ASAP! If the vehicle is under warranty and throwing codes there should be no charge to you to get it scanned and reset. Why haven't they fixed it BTW?

 

[bdcardinal]

no charge for NPF, you can always find something to flag and charge Ford for. Ford pays techs diag, Mazda does not.

Mazda wanted a tech of ours to do a motor teardown on a Mazda 5 without pay to find cause. he said the car could sit until it diagnosed itself since if there was a Ford badge on it, Mazda said the car could sit and rot as far as they were concerned. the car sat until the rental company that owned it towed it away.

 

[MrCritical]

No charge for under warranty complaints that can't be duplicated.

For out of warranty complaints, the tech tells the manager that they can't duplicate the complaint. The manager tries to duplicate the complaint. If he can't, the customer is notified and given the option to drive away with no charge, or we keep looking for a fee.

 

[bdcardinal]

what mrcritical said. the diag fees can go up a lot if chassis ears are involved. whats funny is the chassis ear setup i have at home for my mustang (no cats with coilover suspension) is more advanced than the one my work has. i have the Matco wireless setup and my work has the ghetto wired setup.

 

[Scott_Tucker]

I think a lot of customers feel they got charged excessive diagnostic fees because in most shops the tech diagnoses the vehicle (or at least tries to duplicate and maybe run a few tests), writes some notes, and then passes it back to the service writer. Service writers aren't always the most qualified people and don't always know a whole lot about cars especially when it comes to diagnosis. There can be something critical lost in the translation. The tech could have legitimately spent an hour running tests but if the service writer can't explain what he did it makes it hard to justify the charges. At the shop I work at I write all the notes the customer will see. I can pick up the phone and call the customer to get better information on intermittent problems. At many shops the techs aren't allowed or aren't encouraged to do that. I think people are more willing to hand over money if they have talked to the guy who did the actual work instead of talking to a translator.