What is the definition for the base stock that's used in Mobil 1? Is it a petrolium product? If yes, why does Mobil 1 perform longer than conventional oil. Thanks, Joe
what is the definition for the base stock that's
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Mobil says it contains PAO along with "other high performance fluids". This does not tell you much other than it has some PAO, and would suggest it may be a blend of Group III and PAO. See this link below.
http://www.mobil1.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Oils/Mobil_1_FAQs.aspx#FAQs1
http://www.mobil1.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Oils/Mobil_1_FAQs.aspx#FAQs1
Someone here recently did a GC of M1 and reported it's mostly Group IV and Group V (which some call true synthetics), with a little mineral oil which is probably related to the add pack, IIRC
No, I disagree, statements on the Mobil 1 FAQ webpage do not suggest the presence of Grp III in the Supersyn formulations.
This statement is made:
In general, fully synthetic motor oils contain non-conventional, high-performance fluids.
In the lubricants industry, it is understood that a conventional base oil originates from a barrel of crude oil.
Note that the PAO and AN synthetic fluids in the Mobil 1 formulations are supplied by the ExxonMobil Chemical division. Here is the definition of a synthetic base oil as listed at the XOM Chem Division website.
Q What is the definition of synthetic lubricants?
A Synthetic lubricants are manufactured in chemical plants by reacting components and are specifically designed to possess physical and performance characteristics that are superior to mineral oils. As a result, the molecular structure of synthetic lubricants can be precisely arranged to meet, and often exceed, manufacturers’ criteria for high-performance equipment.
Q How are Group II and Group III base stocks different from Group IV (PAO) stocks?
A Group II and Group III base stocks are enhanced mineral oils that are manufactured by a refining and extraction process which partially removes undesirable molecules that are present in the feed. In contrast, Group IV (PAO) base stocks are chemically synthesized and therefore, do not contain undesirable species.
This statement is made:
In general, fully synthetic motor oils contain non-conventional, high-performance fluids.
In the lubricants industry, it is understood that a conventional base oil originates from a barrel of crude oil.
Note that the PAO and AN synthetic fluids in the Mobil 1 formulations are supplied by the ExxonMobil Chemical division. Here is the definition of a synthetic base oil as listed at the XOM Chem Division website.
Q What is the definition of synthetic lubricants?
A Synthetic lubricants are manufactured in chemical plants by reacting components and are specifically designed to possess physical and performance characteristics that are superior to mineral oils. As a result, the molecular structure of synthetic lubricants can be precisely arranged to meet, and often exceed, manufacturers’ criteria for high-performance equipment.
Q How are Group II and Group III base stocks different from Group IV (PAO) stocks?
A Group II and Group III base stocks are enhanced mineral oils that are manufactured by a refining and extraction process which partially removes undesirable molecules that are present in the feed. In contrast, Group IV (PAO) base stocks are chemically synthesized and therefore, do not contain undesirable species.
Mobil 1 could easily clear up the mystery. All they would have to do is say that their oil does not contain any Group I, II, or III oil, and only Group IV and V base oils. I wonder why they do not say that?
Essentially, what would you call modified oils that were derived from plants?
The answer given here by XOM is really disingenuous. Anyone with even a modicum of understanding as to how hydrocracking and isomerization work knows that this process is much more than a "refining and extraction process." In hydrocracking, the feedstock is actually restructured at the molecular level via a catalyst in the presence of hydrogen under great pressure and very high temps. The result is that the finished product bears virtually no resemblence to the feedstock at the molecular level.
ExxonMobil tries to make it sound like Group II and Group III are produced using the same methods that were used to produce Group I fifty years ago, and that's simply not the case.
Good....I see dino motor oil is a very advanced formula. So is feedstock for PAO basestock crude oil or some refined petroleum product?
Several processes exist to make PAO base oils. Here, we normally refer to the process in which polyalphaolefins are derrived from ethylene gas.
The ethylene is reacted under pressure & temperature and in the presence of a catalyst to form linear alpha olefins such as 1-hexene, 1-octene, 1-decene, etc.
Of these linear alpha olefins, the 1-decene & 1-duodecene components are processed into the polyalphaolefins that we see used as Grp IV base oils in Amsoil, M1, etc.
It is common to see a MSDS sheet with the PAO base oil listed with a term such as "1-decene homopolymer" and this is referrence to the linear alpha olefin roots & manufacturing process.
Note that other linear alpha olefins, 1-butene, 1-hexene, and 1-octene are used in the production of polyethylene plastic.
The ethylene is reacted under pressure & temperature and in the presence of a catalyst to form linear alpha olefins such as 1-hexene, 1-octene, 1-decene, etc.
Of these linear alpha olefins, the 1-decene & 1-duodecene components are processed into the polyalphaolefins that we see used as Grp IV base oils in Amsoil, M1, etc.
It is common to see a MSDS sheet with the PAO base oil listed with a term such as "1-decene homopolymer" and this is referrence to the linear alpha olefin roots & manufacturing process.
Note that other linear alpha olefins, 1-butene, 1-hexene, and 1-octene are used in the production of polyethylene plastic.
Well, I would tend to describe XOM's statement as over simplistic, rather than any term that implies a conscious attempt to mis-state facts.
I think that a Grp II/III mineral oil process is actually both subtracting undesireable components and re-arranging others to arrive at the highly saturated state of uniform molecular size and structure.
The XOM statement was emphazing the fact that PAO's are chemically built & unwanted molecular structure is not removed or re-built.
But yes, I think some of the guys over at the XOM Refining Technologies division would also quickly point out that the "in-demand" XOM catalyst technology is doing more than "subtracting".
Ron:
They have, and will any time you care to ask. I've both called and emailed them out of curiosity. No mystery at all here. The M1 products are primarily PAO, with lesser amounts of ANs (alkylated napthalenes), and various esters. They won't tell you a lot beyond that, which I perfectly understand. Why are you concluding that the marketing language implies the presence of G-IIIs, as opposed to other fluids, without even asking Mobil the question???
Quote:
Ron:
They have, and will any time you care to ask. I've both called and emailed them out of curiosity. No mystery at all here. The M1 products are primarily PAO, with lesser amounts of ANs (alkylated napthalenes), and various esters. They won't tell you a lot beyond that, which I perfectly understand. Why are you concluding that the marketing language implies the presence of G-IIIs, as opposed to other fluids, without even asking Mobil the question???
I'll believe it when they post it on their website. The current wording appears to be written by a lawyer, and is very evasive. Don't understand why they don't just say what they mean. I'm sure they know very well why that FAQ is a FAQ. What really puzzles me about M1 is how they keep their price so close to the Group III oils - at least in Canada. Just wonder what the underlying economics are. M1 is taking a haircut on their prices and/or Pennzoil/Castrol are making out like bandits?
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