What is the absolute best mainstream full synthetic oil?

OVERKILL

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What is ridiculous about the prospect that regualr oil might be better in this particular engine? You cannot prove anything, so you hurl sloppy insults. Childish tantrums.

No insult and certainly no tantrum, I'm not sure where you conjured that one up from. You made a claim, and have thus far been not only unable, but seemingly wholly unwilling to make efforts in an attempt to back it up.

If you understand how lubricants are blended (which you clearly don't) you'd know that the base oil composition won't have any sort of impact on how the oil will handle coolant ingress.

We all make mistakes and have "bad takes" from time to time. Instead of trying to turn this into petty personal shots, maybe take the hit to the chin and cede that you've got nothing substantiative to back this statement:
zeky said:
Maybe all the failure of that engine are because of the synthetic oil? Why not try regular walmart Super-tech non-synthetic?

I'll not hold it against you, we are all here to learn, and I certainly don't know everything.
 
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Walk us through the logic of how synthetic oil caused engines to fail.
Did you read the part about the coolant and oil contamination? Did you read the part about all the other mysterious problems the engine has? . Use your imagination. It a regular whodunit with no answers in the ether. Mystery...
 
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Did you read the part about the coolant and oil contamination? Did you read the part about all the other mysterious problems the engine has? . Use your imagination. It a regular whodunit with no answers in the ether. Mystery...
That seems to be all you can attribute your synthetic vs non theory to is-- imagination.

There's no mystery here. You have a water pump inside the timing cover. Water pumps fail with enough age and mileage; no make, model or design is immune to this. With the right mode of failure, assuming the external drain feature doesn't work as designed (which I suspect is semi-common for this engine), you get coolant leaking into the oil. Check your oil regularly and try to catch it early if you have a high mileage or older engine.

This isn't the type of failure that manifests in a sudden KABOOM. It's people that don't pay attention to dropping coolant levels, or signs of coolant in the oil that suffer the worst fate, like replacing an engine. Otherwise just drive it, and when the water pump starts leaking (internally or externally), replace it.

Lots of folks seem to think Ford is the only one that uses a chain driven water pump. It's not an inherently bad design, it's just that Ford chose not to provide access to it (other than removing the entire timing cover), and the fact that a decent chunk of them tend to leak inside the engine, instead of outside, as they should.
 

wwillson

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Use your imagination.
Using my imagination to come up with why synthetic oil causes engines to fail, is just magical thinking. I prefer to show plausible evidence of why something happens, than using my imagination.

In a second I can imagine that the evil anti-synthetic oil fairy keeps coming to these engines and wrecking them with their magical engine destroying dust, but I prefer repeatable evidence.
 
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Lots of folks seem to think Ford is the only one that uses a chain driven water pump. It's not an inherently bad design, it's just that Ford chose not to provide access to it (other than removing the entire timing cover), and the fact that a decent chunk of them tend to leak inside the engine, instead of outside, as they should.
It's an incredibly stupid design. The idea of a timing chain and the components it rotates (cams, oil pump etc.) is it's generally supposed to be maintenance free. There's virtually no advantage to a chain driven water pump because anybody who keeps their vehicles more than 100k knows very well that water pumps are wear items, they always eventually need replacing.
 
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Most people on Bitog feel the oil they use is the best. I currently think Mobil 1 ESP is the best. Choose on oil, odds are you'll think it's the best.
I ask because I have a Ford vehicle with the dreaded 3.5 Duratec V6 water pump. I know some may think this is splitting hairs but in my case I beg to differ. Since I got it at just 2,000 miles, I drained the Motorcraft blend at 4,500 miles and put in Supertech Advanced Full Synthetic and was intending to change it every 7,000 miles but have moved down to 6,000.

Thing is, the higher the mileage goes on the car, the more anxious I get about the water pump failing. I'm at 11,800 miles now and I am deciding to go with the best full synthetic here on out there to do everything I can to help the water pump, not just Supertech. Yes, I am also flushing the coolant, I am about to do my first flush and will then do the flush annually for the rest of the car's life.

My understanding is that Mobile One Advanced Full Synthetic is generally considered the best available oil. How true is this? What other oils are better, and by how much and how much do they cost?
You said: "My understanding is that Mobile One Advanced Full Synthetic is generally considered the best available oil."

That means you made a choice based on homework you did. Most people on Bitog feel the oil they use is the best, based on their homework. I currently think Mobil 1 ESP is the best. IMO there is no "best." The best usually is what someone used at their last oil change. So choose on oil, then when someone asks which oil is the best you can tell them what you think. I rarely read anyone using the "worst" oil. ;)
 
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I have a 2013 Ford Edge with a 3.5 Duratec engine, about 113,000 mi on it, I am the second owner on the car, original owner always changed it with, Motorcraft synthetic blend, about every 5,000 MI I got the car at about 80,000 MI and started using Valvoline maxlife synthetic blend, I recently sent a sample off to Blackstone labs because I noticed my coolant dropped a little bit. So in the meantime I figured I have the cooling system pressure check, brought it to, a shop I know, he pressure check the cooling system, for 2 hours it did not drop at all, about 2 weeks ago, Blackstone Labs comes back with the report, no antifreeze was found, in the oil. Also absolutely no metals. I'm still running the Dex clone, Ford dealer flushed it years ago. Right before I got it. I change my oil every 6 months I probably average maybe two or three thousand miles. One guy I was talking to said, if you're changing the water pump out of maintenance, all you have to do is change the water pump, and not even worry about the chains. I don't know if that's true or false..
 

spj

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Have had three explorers with the cyclone, two police interceptors which are actually a 3.7 and a personal 3.5. I asked my work mechanic who sees tons of these fleet vehicles if they have had problems with the water pumps. He said he had not seen one. We auction the cruisers with 125,000 to 150,000 miles of abuse.

Ironically, the next service I had with him around 70,000 miles he told me the motor was weeping and to take it to the dealer. Water pump gone LOL. It was under warranty (fleet) so Ford cracked into it and repaired it, fortunately it was caught in time and nothing else was replaced. No issues after either. Ford asked if we wanted to pay for new timing chains since they were in there anyway. Nope, they don't fail before we get rid of them. My personal explorer just rolled 102,000 and is going in for the 100,000 service. Outstanding vehicle, have run Mobil 1 0W20 and 0W30 with royal purple filters.
 
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Moving forward SP , GF-6 , D1 Gen 3 rated synthetic oils ... Take your pick UNLESS a GDI engine - then a bit more research may be in order as to which one of the afore mentioned oils is best with the same approvals (i.e. lowest VII's , NOACK , ash , etc.)
 
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Moving forward SP , GF-6 , D1 Gen 3 rated synthetic oils ... Take your pick UNLESS a GDI engine - then a bit more research may be in order as to which one of the afore mentioned oils is best with the same approvals (i.e. lowest VII's , NOACK , ash , etc.)
Even for a GDI turbo engine the consensus seemed to be pony up for Amsoil SS / Ravenol DXG, or just stick with anything SP D1G2 rated.
 

dnewton3

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This topic is near and dear to me as I have a 3.5L n/a Taurus.

We need to get several things straight first, so that we can have an INTELLIGENT conversation and not a bunch of guesses.

First of all, the 3.5L engine (Cyclone in this case, and also came in 3.7L) has been used in both transverse and longitudinal applications. The longitudinal ones are still in place; they are the basis for the 3.5L engines in many Ford applications such as the 3.5L EB. Even the 3.5L transverse EB (Taurus SHO for example, and Explorers) is pretty much the same engine. In the longitudinal form, they moved the water pump to outside the engine; no big issues here. On the transverse engines, they are inside the timing chain cover. This wasn't a "bad design", nor is it unique to this engine. The choice was made due to packaging constraints; takes up less room. And Ford's not the only engine manufacturer to do this; so don't act like they are standing alone in this issue. Mitsubishi and others have also done this on V6 and I4 engines. Google it and you'll see it's not a unique abberation. ALL engineering designs are typically a merging of all manner of choices; Marketing wants this; Finance wants that; Engineering wants this; Field Service wants that. Some of you need a dose of mass manufacturing reality if you don't think EVERY PRODUCT is a compromise of many things.

The 3.5L transverse application water pump is no more prone to failure than any other water pump. The issue is that when it's inside the timing chain system of a transverse engine application, it's a BIG DEAL to pull the pump out for replacement. It's not a 30 minute job; it's about 12 hours. The labor cost is what's offensive to so many folks; understandably so.

Further, the 3.5L transverse water pump is NOT lubricated by the engine oil; the bearing is a sealed bearing like just about every other water pump; if ya doubt me then go look at some images at RockAuto and others and you'll see what I mean. It is true that the engine oil lubes the chain drive and by default that includes the timing teeth that turn the water pump, but that pump impeller is across a bore that uses a sealed bearing and shaft seals to keep the coolant on it's side of the fence. So the reality is that NO OIL SELECTION has the ability to increase or decrease the lifespan of the water pump, because like most water pumps, the failure mode is typically a sealed ruined bearing. Only very rarely is the impeller the root cause of failure, and even then, the engine oil once again has ZILCH to do with that.

The additional issue is that there are two typical pump failure modes for this OPs application. One is a water leak that manifests outside the engine via the designed leak tell-tale path; that's the hopeful way you'll find out. These water pumps have two seals; inner and outer, to create a channel for the coolant to take a path where one can see the initial leak onset of failure. The other far-less-desirable way to find out is when water leaks INTO the engine; past the bearing/seals of the pump shaft, rather than out the intended tell-tale leak path. Once coolant gets into the oil via the unintended leak path, it does not take long for the oil to become a "milkshake" ... and disaster is the soon experienced result often meaning a ruined engine. IF and only if you can detect the "internal" coolant leak soon enough, can you avoid total disaster. You still have a big job on your hands, but that's far cheaper than a new engine.

The key to detecting the internal engine coolant leak is to watch the visual clues (coolant level), and also track for trace amounts in the UOAs. NO CHOICE of oil selection will ever make the problem go away, or even less of a matter. This is a total misunderstanding of the concerns and engineering choices.

Obviously, what catches folks off guard is the cost and the high risks. When they buy a car, the salesperson doesn't say "This is a very efficient and powerful engine, but it will cost $1500 for a water pump change, and that water pump might fail and ruin the engine if you don't change it soon eough"; that would scare most customers away. I bought my new 2018 Taurus fully knowing of the issue, but the price I paid for the car was soooooo incredibly cheap that I more than saved the cost of a pump change, so I still came out ahead. These pumps have been known to fail as early at 75k miles in some rare cases, and they have also be heard of lasting to 250k miles in some cases, but the majority fall somewhere in between. The pump failures never fall inside the warranty period, and so the cost is totally borne by the consumer, and that's what makes folks mad. Simply put, it's not a "bad design"; it's an "expensive to repair design". And like I said, Ford is not the first company to do this.

So my long winded answer can be boiled down to this ...
There is absolutely no way any oil is going to make this problem go away or be less of an issue, no matter how wonderful one believes any lube to be. One cannot avoid the pump going bad at some point; it happens to all water pumps. The key here is to detect it going bad at early onset, and change it before it ruins the oil which then ruins the engine. If one chooses, they can change the pump even before that shaft bearing/seal goes bad; that would avoid the disaster all together.
 
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I can confirm that my 1992 Mitsubishi 1.8 four cylinder had the water pump inside as you described. It was a major job in that the engine had to be pulled. The labor cost was a huge part of the bill. When mine was done the timing belt was also replaced since it was readily accessible.
 
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