What is my Honda Pilot engine's REAL problem?

[gogozy]

Originally Posted By: K20FA5
Originally Posted By: dwgwater
Change the oil at 50% on the MM but don't reset it. Do it again when the MM gets to 10% and you won't miss the secondary codes


You won't miss them now. When you hold down the button to reset it, the current codes show up. Just make a note of them and then press the button again to reset it. That's what I've been doing.

same here. I also believe dealer can pull the data and reveal when and what % OLM, when oil was changed (on Honda).

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: Boss302fan
Use PU and change every 5K...


Bingo, ignore the MM totally for this application, and probably many others. M1 or PU changed every 6 months or 5,000 miles will serve your engine a lot better than any MM will. Do the math and figure how much extra over the average life of the vehicle ignoring the MM will really cost you. I bet it won't be much. In fact in the end the extra oil changes will probably save you money, just ask the OP of this thread. This poor guy did everything right and lost money in the process. In the end your engine will thank you, and you'll save $$ in repair. I ignore mine, and wish I didn't have it. JMO

 

[Vikas]

Do you get the impression that Adam has agag order from Honda? He has now vanished from this forum completely.

 

[gogozy]

Originally Posted By: Vikas
Do you get the impression that Adam has agag order from Honda? He has now vanished from this forum completely.

it's summer month maybe he is taking family out for a trip in the Pilot!

 

[VNTS]

Or he is out shopping for a new SUV, before he is out more money out of pocket. If it is, bet it wont be another Honda LOL

 

[hypervish]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: Boss302fan
Use PU and change every 5K...


Bingo, ignore the MM totally for this application, and probably many others. M1 or PU changed every 6 months or 5,000 miles will serve your engine a lot better than any MM will. Do the math and figure how much extra over the average life of the vehicle ignoring the MM will really cost you. I bet it won't be much. In fact in the end the extra oil changes will probably save you money, just ask the OP of this thread. This poor guy did everything right and lost money in the process. In the end your engine will thank you, and you'll save $$ in repair. I ignore mine, and wish I didn't have it. JMO


Exactly. I'm glad somebody finally said it.

 

[Adam_in_NH]

Originally Posted By: gogozy
Originally Posted By: Vikas
Do you get the impression that Adam has agag order from Honda? He has now vanished from this forum completely.

it's summer month maybe he is taking family out for a trip in the Pilot!


Adam says yes to the vacation but no to the Honda gag order. They paid me back, not paid me off! And yes, I plan on running this vehicle into the foreseeable future. Actually I was waiting to post the Blackstone results on my recent 4,600 mile conventional oil change. This is the same oil that was in my engine when the loud ticking led me to have the cam replaced. I sampled the oil for Blackstone, then added a pint of Kreen, ran it about 500 miles, then changed it with some good dino I had in the garage and another pint of Kreen. I'll change it again at 1000 miles with synthetic M1EP, run it, then do a third round of Kreen.

I didn't have anything meaningful to add otherwise, but I will say that I really appreciate and value everyone that has participated in this thread. What a tremendous resource this is! Stay tuned for oil test results.

 

[bodeh6]

Keep using syn for 5K runs until it clears up a bit.

 

[Adam_in_NH]

OP Update: 103K miles on my 2009 Honda Pilot now. I've been running Mobil 1 EP for about 4500-5000 mile intervals, then replacing a pint of it with Kreen, letting that run for about 500 miles, then repeating the process. The Pilot is running like new. I did send what I thought was a sample of the stock dino oil which was in the engine at the time of the cam failure over to Blackstone Labs, but I accidentally sent them used transmission fluid so was pretty disappointed with myself. I would have loved to see those oil test results. Today I received a message from Mike in upstate NY who has an 09 Pilot just like mine and appears to be having the exact same problem, even after a valve adjustment. Perhaps he has a stock oil sample he can have tested. Thanks to everyone for their help here, I really consider it to be a blessing. Happy New Year everyone.

 

[Hokiefyd]

Originally Posted By: Adam_in_NH
I did send what I thought was a sample of the stock dino oil which was in the engine at the time of the cam failure over to Blackstone Labs, but I accidentally sent them used transmission fluid so was pretty disappointed with myself.


Was it transmission fluid from your Pilot? I'd be curious to see that UOA, if you wouldn't mind posting it. Glad to hear your Pilot is back to running well.

 

[Vikas]

How many Kreen treatments? This seems to be overkill.

 

[buster]

I'd drop the Kreen and stick with just the M1 EP. It will help clean very well.

 

[blackman777]

Originally Posted By: MBS500
Manufacturer considers 150k miles as a lifetime on new car. After that, they expect it to die, and you to come and pay them again.
One catch: California and northeast CARB-compliant states expect cars that are PZEV rated to not only last 150,000 miles but also pass emissions for that long. Manufacturers like Honda need their cars to keep running good enough to be "clean" for 150k else they'll be shelling out a lot of money repairing customers' catalysts or engines. They can't afford to recommend junk oil or too-long OCIs that damage emissions ahead of schedule.

 

[Vikas]

Over the weekend, my friend told me that his old Accord (2000) died with engine failure. It had 240K miles on and the engine light came on. Later he confided that oil had leaked out and he apparently drove it to the mechanic and barely made it there. Needed to be pushed in the shop parking lot. Mechanic told him after a week that one of the cylinder has no compression and advised him to junk the car as it is not cost effective to put a rebuilt engine in it. He is my mechanic too and generally he is honest, at least to me. How does one lose all the oil and if one loses the oil, why one cylinder will have compression loss? Mechanic was the last one to touch this car as my friend always takes to him for all the maintenance. Did the drain plug fall out? Did the rear main seal go completely? Was the oil filter double gasketted? I was more interested in post-mortem than my friend, so I dropped the subject.

Bottom line is that Honda do die, contrary to popular belief.

 

[KCJeep]

My guess would be he simply neglected it, didn't check the oil and finally ran it low enough the pick up couldn't supply oil and he oil starved the engine. I imagine at 240k he had some consumption he was ignoring.

Not likely it all "leaked out" without his mechanic clearly observing exactly where it occurred.

BITOG'ers are unfortunately the exception, not the norm. Many, many people neglect their OCI's and don't check their oil, ever, in between them.

I'm no Honda fan but nobody's engine will run without oil.

 

[Vikas]

The leaking part is true as his daughter came home from errands and noticed the leaking oil. I believe he was regularly taking the car for oil changes. He is the type who overdoes these things. I suspect he was doing 3K oil changes. He had bought the car new. He is a typical desi software engineer and religiously services his vehicles without bothering to understand anything. He usually calls me when he runs in to trouble i.e. check engine light etc. I will almost guarantee that he never checks the oil in between the changes but he is of the type to follow the sticker on the windshield and will get an early change if the number was going to roll over in the middle of a planned trip! So I don't believe the car was neglected at all.

It is all water under the bridge and my view is somewhat clouded by own personal experience with the same mechanic. There are few incidents with him which makes me believe that it could certainly be some negligence on the prior service which resulted in this catastrophe. I do wish my friend had called me when he got the engine oil light or after noticing the oil leak before driving to the shop.

My opinion of mechanics as a class has dropped down even further. I know for sure that most of them are worse than this guy and this guy is no Einstein.

 

[KCJeep]

Ahhh, makes sense now thanks for clearing that up. Too bad he chose to drive it AFTER the oil light came on. If he'd shut it down right away maybe it could have been saved.

 

[Bladecutter]

Originally Posted By: Vikas
Over the weekend, my friend told me that his old Accord (2000) died with engine failure. It had 240K miles on and the engine light came on. Later he confided that oil had leaked out and he apparently drove it to the mechanic and barely made it there.


Exactly what in the world does your friend's car, with over 240k miles on it, that had its engine die because all the engine oil leaked out, and he decided to drive it anyway have to do with these other Honda engines that die between 60k and 80k miles with never losing a single drop of oil during the lifetime of the engine?

Aside from the fact that they are both Honda engine's, there is no connection between your friend's car, and the troubled Honda engines in this thread.

Exactly what is the point you are trying to make by including your friend's engine failure story in this thread? That Honda engines die? Any engine is going to die if you drain out all of the engine oil, and keep driving it, Period.

BC.

 

[friendly_jacek]

Originally Posted By: Adam_in_NH
OP's HIGH-RESOLUTION PICTURES: Here is a link to an online folder which contains all my pictures as well as a short video of the motor ticking. The ticking is actually a bit lower in audio tone then what is obvious on the video. When the engine is revved it sound horrible but its hard to distinguish on the video.

Adam's 2009 Pilot

I think the difference between the front and rear valve trains is just astounding - one almost like new and the other totally varnished with the beginning of sludge. It is also quite interesting that the cylinder which shuts down in the 4-cylinder VCM mode is the most polluted of the three that run in 3-cylinder VCM mode. One would think it would be less polluted then the other two if it does not work as much. Another mystery?


Thanks for posting the pictures. Eye opener. I never had any Honda cars, but this is an engine to stay away from.
Good job on rescuing the engine. Sad that Honda is denying any problems. Every car maker have some dark side.

 

[friendly_jacek]

Originally Posted By: Adam_in_NH
OP Update: 103K miles on my 2009 Honda Pilot now. I've been running Mobil 1 EP for about 4500-5000 mile intervals, then replacing a pint of it with Kreen, letting that run for about 500 miles, then repeating the process. The Pilot is running like new. I did send what I thought was a sample of the stock dino oil which was in the engine at the time of the cam failure over to Blackstone Labs, but I accidentally sent them used transmission fluid so was pretty disappointed with myself. I would have loved to see those oil test results. Today I received a message from Mike in upstate NY who has an 09 Pilot just like mine and appears to be having the exact same problem, even after a valve adjustment. Perhaps he has a stock oil sample he can have tested. Thanks to everyone for their help here, I really consider it to be a blessing. Happy New Year everyone.


Adam, I couldn't find in this very long thread if you had to pay for any repairs on this?
Did you go up in the viscosity?