No disagreement here.
Basic point stands - don't assume they aren't making good money. There isn't a construction job anywhere here that starts at minimum wage these days. Not even close.
What happens if high tech workers making six figures are no longer a hot commodity?
- Thread starter GON
- Start date
Basic point stands - don't assume they aren't making good money. There isn't a construction job anywhere here that starts at minimum wage these days. Not even close.
They can't get enough constructions workers here in Utah for all the projects going on. While I don't have any first hand knowledge-it would stand to reason they have to pay the ones they do get pretty good!
Yes. Robots require programming. I did some working in an Engineering department for a few months. Hated it.
The majority of the value is found in the job itself rather than the working conditions. OTOH some of this non-technical work pays very well but it's seasonal.
So why would anyone work a job outside in 100F heat for low pay when they could work inside for higher pay?
GON
$100 Site Donor 2024
It depends where one lives. A laborer in Mississippi yes, very hard work and very little pay, and possibly high expectations of the laborers.
A union laborer in a place like Chicago (as MNGopher pointed out), likely making around $40 per hour, tons of available overtime. Maybe not working so hard. And receiving unemployment checks all winter, often while they are enjoying the fruits of their labors in a sandy/ warm place. Maybe even doing "gigs" for cash in that sandy place while receiving unemployment checks.
Being a laborer in many places is a super tough gig and lifestyle. Being a laborer in a strong union area can be very lucrative.
GON
$100 Site Donor 2024
Why do farmers farm...... maybe out of love.... maybe that is all they know........ confidence levels, the reasons people work hard labor outside in all kinds of conditions is far and wide.
When I get home from work- my job does not end, ever. Some jobs, maybe outside work, all duties and responsibilities may end when they leave the jobsite. Some people are wound up different than others.
Like some others on this forum, I grew up very poor in a home that struggled for basics including a roof over our heads. When I was in high school, I dreamed for a job working as a laborer on the state interstates. Steady paycheck, insurance, pension..... wow, what I sweet job as a laborer working on the interstate I thought as a poor kid in my teens.
One of my peers in high school went that route, working for the state interstate maintenance. He is a car guy on steroids. He races drag cars, rebuilds 1950s Chevys, etc. His job, with seniority allows him eight weeks of vacation, he hits every car show he wants, races many weekends. Hasn't missed a paycheck since 1982. I am not sure all high-tech office workers can say the same.
And for note, a book titled "A Leader's Legacy" (Kouzes and Posner), points to research that the NUMBER ONE UNKNOWN INFLUENCE/SUCCESS on most people future job choices, of all things... is their very first supervisor. I never heard that theory until I read A Leaders Legacy.
From Leaders Legacy:
Last edited:
A general laborer is more than welcome to apply for an office job if they think they're qualified for it.
I work for an engineering/environmental company and the ones who are out in the field the most are usually the lesser experienced and lesser qualified folks. The ones who are in the office more (project managers, admin staff) are more qualified, have a lot more responsibilities as they have to manage multiple aspects and projects, and have certain skills and knowledge that only come with experience. If the field workers want to "stay in the office" more, they can build up their experience and knowledge like everybody else does and thus make themselves more valuable.
Last edited:
Because either those higher paying jobs don't exist where they live or they're unable or unwilling to develop the skillset to obtain them. The other thing is people are, for numerous reasons, susceptible to falling prey to the sunk-cost fallacy*.
*the phenomenon whereby a person is reluctant to abandon a strategy or course of action because they have invested heavily in it, even when it is clear that abandonment would be more beneficial.
Last edited:
Certain housing markets will tank even faster.
Thank you Gon. So many of your contributions here are very thought provoking.
My parents were my first work supervisors and they certainly instilled excellent work ethic and other principles in me. My supervisors in my teen job positions instilled excellent work principles. Post college, my first supervisor was an alcoholic that played the system to his advantage. That, too, was a positive experience of how NOT to have an excellent career.
My idealistic principles about careers in my late teens drove me to a road less travelled based on my passion to never be part of the "rat race" -
"the unpleasant life of people who have jobs that require them to work very hard in order to compete with others for money, power, status, etc." Many of you here affirm my ongoing career of 45 years was an excellent choice for me. Thank you. I continue learning and changing to this day to remain current with the inevitable changes.
- Joined
- Jun 2, 2002
- Messages
- 4,210
I'm retired now and can expound on a lifetime of working blue collar jobs with only an associates degree. People seem to struggle with making a living not because of their education, their chosen field of endeavor or even their physical location where they choose to reside. People that I have been exposed to over the course of my life who struggle and live poorly seem to do so because of their inability to manage their assets. When you earn $35,000 a year and live like you earn $100,000 a year you will always be behind the 8-ball. Greed seems to afflict a majority of the population and living in a high consumption society where you're told that you "deserve" every trinket that rolls down the gutter is what keeps many people poor.
A wise old indian from Omaha, Nebraska, once stated that “Do not save what is left after spending, but spend what is left after saving”. Wiser words have never been spoken. And if you watch your pennies then your dollars will watch themselves. That old dirty ditch digging septic tank driver might look a mess but there's a possibility that he's better off than the docker wearing, clip-board carrying office worker who smells of cheap cologne.
A wise old indian from Omaha, Nebraska, once stated that “Do not save what is left after spending, but spend what is left after saving”. Wiser words have never been spoken. And if you watch your pennies then your dollars will watch themselves. That old dirty ditch digging septic tank driver might look a mess but there's a possibility that he's better off than the docker wearing, clip-board carrying office worker who smells of cheap cologne.
He said his nephews were in their late 20's, making low six figures. I take that they are 26-29, making more than $125k, less than $250k. That's quite a range and a LOT OF FREAKING MONEY for someone without a college degree, younger than 30 years old.
I'd hope they are expanding their skills. They didn't end up with a job paying that much because they are stupid or lazy. Are there bad IT people? Heck yes, just like there's sorry/pathetic every trade/job. If they were raised right and are still guided right, they will be ok.
I think GOON was just theorizing about how there might be some wave of dip in the economy that affects all these panic-hiring IT positions or where the fad of the week in IT goes away, so does a hoard of high-paying jobs in a concentrated area..... which WILL affect home prices in that area. Always does.
Because writing code and understanding security vulnerabilities takes alot more training then teaching someone to use a shovel.
True but if you were to take a survey of shovel workers you might be surprised at how many have a college degree. Same goes for so many blue collar jobs these days.
GON
$100 Site Donor 2024
DM,
Thanks for the kind words.
You are/were very fortunate to have parents that knew how to prepare you for an independent, productive, AND fulfilling life. I think many cultures follow that model... I sometimes wonder if that model is not as strong as it could/ should be currently in the USA.
Assuming the studies on first supervisors being so critical to a young persons' future- I wish I would have known that raising my children. My youngest (now adult) Son struggles professionally, and he was let go from his first job in high school. When one gets fired from their first ever job, some bounce back, maybe even stronger..... some may never recover..... the mind is different in all of us. My youngest Son does not do anything illegal, never has, always shows up to work 30 minutes early, never ever arrested, honest.... yet struggles to find meaningful employment. I wondered if he has some PTSD from being let go from his high school job. The reason I speculate he was let go, undiagnosed dyslexia, he worked in a retail paint store and may not have been reading labels on paint cans the same way you and I may have read the labels.
If I could have done it all again with my youngest Son, I would have tried to assist him in finding his first job with a person of character and fortitude (and patience). I think his life at 28 years old may be very different today.
My parents, especially my dad, was dead set against my career choice. My older brother was an electrical engineer while I was the black sheep. With my excellent teen academic status, my dad had the ancient fantasy for me to become a doctor, lawyer, etc. (status careers of that era). How disappointed he was for a number of years - underachieved potential, LOL.
Regarding "If I could have done it all again", certainly you know that with raising children there is absolutely NO cookbook formula. My three adult kids raised under the same roof with the same principles are all drastically different (with the exception of excellent work ethic). It used to irk me that I had my nose to the grindstone since my early teens to achieve "success" while guys like JeffKeryk "goofed off" having fun for 15 years and still became rich and successful.
That grindstone was painful and how much fun did I miss, LOL(his "fun" was also painful)
Last edited:
Different kind of programming than an office app
The reality is that entire work classes and fields get eliminated fairly often with a niche market left.
Many people are at risk of being outsourced due to remote work
Why pay 6 figures when you can get half the output for $25,000 a year overseas?
True, but shovel work is far harder than computer work. That's all I am saying.
Labor work tends to be all day long, by the clock. Office work tends to be around coffee breaks, joking, time off for whatever and complaining about everything.
Just my opinion...
Similar threads
