What happened to Dodge & Chrysler?

[OVERKILL]

"Ford once again took the top spot, selling 750,789 F-Series pickups in 2023, a 15-percent increase compared to 2022. Chevrolet, on the other hand, “only” sold 555,148 Silverados, a 7-percent improvement. The Silverado’s GMC counterpart, the Sierra, made 295,738 sales. That’s a 22-percent improvement, and if added to the Silverado’s sales brings GM’s full-size truck total sales to 850,886 units."

Ram, however, struggled a bit in 2023, selling 444,927 trucks. That’s 5 percent lower than its 2022 sales total. Only so many people can actually afford a TRX, apparently. Keep in mind that the sales figures for the Big Three include heavy duty trucks – the F-Series sales figure is both F-150 and Super Duty put together, for example, and Chevy’s figure includes Silverado 1500 and Silverado HD."

-Jalopnik https://jalopnik.com/yet-again-full-size-pickup-trucks-dominated-u-s-auto-1851141569#:~:text=Ford once again took the top spot, selling,Silverado’s GMC counterpart, the Sierra, made 295,738 sales.

Yes, we are using the same numbers. 750,789 subtract 444,927 is 305,863, that's not "nearly" 400,000 units.

Of course I was speaking about the Big three. Of course as I mentioned aswell, Nissan is on the bottom.

You didn't mention Nissan was on the bottom. What you said was:

They targeted people who dont take care of their cars, for short term gains for stock holders. Same for Nissan.

Which says nothing about sales figures

I would add however, if Toyota ever maned up and made a 3\4 ton, there would be a big shakeup.

Given their current engine issues, that may not be a safe bet.

I would add that GM in fact is the best selling by far, contrary to popular belief.

Yes, the GM twins (GMC and Chevrolet) combined, out-sell Ford most years, but they are broken up because they are separate "brands".

Bottom line, Ram is not what is used to be in the late 90s and 2000s, greta trucks then. now they are Fat Fiats.

The DT trucks are considerably nicer than anything that came before them. We went from a DS to a DT and the DT rides better, handles better, has nicer interior, better materials...etc. Have you actually driven one?

The 90's and early 2000's were the "Fisher Price" interior days. Dash was 6-miles deep with cheap plastic, the transmissions were fragile garbage (like GM's 4L60E), they were perhaps typical for the day, but they were a far cry from the materials and fit and finish on the DT's. They also now have the best transmission of any of them, which is a complete 180 from where they used to be.

 

[OVERKILL]

I am talking new one, not MB platform. WL one. Quality issues, things falling apart, cables not being secured leaving people stranded. Grand Cherokee L should be strong competitor to Pilot, Grand Highlander, Atlas and then some more considering 4WD and longitudinal engine. But…

To be clear, the L is the three row version, the non-L Grand Cherokee, which is now also on the WL platform, is the two row version, so there are two versions at this point. The L on the WL platform started production while the WK2 was still being manufactured, the shift from the non-L to the WL platform is more recent.

I've not had any QC issues with any of the ones I've driven, but my seat time is not ownership experience.

Trimmings-wise, the GC is arguably superior to all of those you just mentioned. Here's a 2024 L for example, which does not have the interior fit and finish issues that I observed in my recent GMC Yukon review:

 

[edyvw]

To be clear, the L is the three row version, the non-L Grand Cherokee, which is now also on the WL platform, is the two row version, so there are two versions at this point. The L on the WL platform started production while the WK2 was still being manufactured, the shift from the non-L to the WL platform is more recent.

I've not had any QC issues with any of the ones I've driven, but my seat time is not ownership experience.

Trimmings-wise, the GC is arguably superior to all of those you just mentioned. Here's a 2024 L for example, which does not have the interior fit and finish issues that I observed in my recent GMC Yukon review:
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Like I said, I read long-term reviews by Motortrend, etc., so I will leave that to their judgment. One trend that seems to be emerging is issues where vehicles have to be towed, especially PHEV versions.
Also, I ma not sure GM is benchmark here. I checked the current Tahoe, and the only thing that stays memorable is the amount of cheap plastic.

 

[OVERKILL]

Like I said, I read long-term reviews by Motortrend, etc., so I will leave that to their judgment. One trend that seems to be emerging is issues where vehicles have to be towed, especially PHEV versions.

Yeah, I would not be an early adopter of a PHEV from a company that hasn't really done them in any volume before. Even Toyota, the "hybrid king" recently had issues with wiring corrosion that would disable vehicles. And they've been at this game longer than anyone.

Also, I ma not sure GM is benchmark here. I checked the current Tahoe, and the only thing that stays memorable is the amount of cheap plastic.

Well, the RAM is being benchmarked against the Ford and GM twins in this thread, with the claim that their offering isn't as good to explain the sales spread. This is despite the shared 10 speed used by the other two being inferior to the ZF 8HP that Stellantis uses in their RWD-based offerings, including RAM.

 

[edyvw]

Yeah, I would not be an early adopter of a PHEV from a company that hasn't really done them in any volume before. Even Toyota, the "hybrid king" recently had issues with wiring corrosion that would disable vehicles. And they've been at this game longer than anyone.

Well, the RAM is being benchmarked against the Ford and GM twins in this thread, with the claim that their offering isn't as good to explain the sales spread. This is despite the shared 10 speed used by the other two being inferior to the ZF 8HP that Stellantis uses in their RWD-based offerings, including RAM.

I'm not sure RAM has a strategy because when I look at the city/county fleet, it is all Ford and GM. Why? As you said, ZF8 is leaps and bounds better than whatever Ford and GM are using, which has been an issue apparently for years. So, something is not adding up with RAM strategy, marketing, and business model. I think they were really late with Durango replacement. Durango was fairly popular with LEO, but Explorer went through two generations, and we still do not have a new Durango. The same goes for Tahoe. LEO here cannot get enough of Explorers bcs. turbo and its performance at altitude. I see some leftover Durangos in CSPD and the sheriff's department, the largest in CO, I don't think it has any, but they have plenty of Explorers.
Like I said earlier, Sergio Marchionne's death is really catching up with them.

 

[OVERKILL]

I'm not sure RAM has a strategy because when I look at the city/county fleet, it is all Ford and GM. Why? As you said, ZF8 is leaps and bounds better than whatever Ford and GM are using, which has been an issue apparently for years. So, something is not adding up with RAM strategy, marketing, and business model. I think they were really late with Durango replacement. Durango was fairly popular with LEO, but Explorer went through two generations, and we still do not have a new Durango. The same goes for Tahoe. LEO here cannot get enough of Explorers bcs. turbo and its performance at altitude. I see some leftover Durangos in CSPD and the sheriff's department, the largest in CO, I don't think it has any, but they have plenty of Explorers.
Like I said earlier, Sergio Marchionne's death is really catching up with them.

That may be regional, as I see more and more Durangos here locally now, and the Explorers are disappearing. That's both OPP and city police. They seem to go through "phases", probably depending on who is giving them the best deal, but I assume this also includes officer feedback. It would be really nice if Stellantis acknowledged the heat exchanger problem and fitted an aluminum one that resembled the Dorman replacement so that LEO forces didn't have to deal with that inevitable failure.

 

[hrv]

 

[edyvw]

That may be regional, as I see more and more Durangos here locally now, and the Explorers are disappearing. That's both OPP and city police. They seem to go through "phases", probably depending on who is giving them the best deal, but I assume this also includes officer feedback. It would be really nice if Stellantis acknowledged the heat exchanger problem and fitted an aluminum one that resembled the Dorman replacement so that LEO forces didn't have to deal with that inevitable failure.

And that is the problem generally with GM, Ford, and Dodge. They drag their feet fixing issues. By the time they do it, the "image" is already ingrained.
From my observation, the Explorer is more preferred, at least here in the West. They are replacing Chargers, too, because of their versatility.

 

[OVERKILL]

And that is the problem generally with GM, Ford, and Dodge. They drag their feet fixing issues. By the time they do it, the "image" is already ingrained.
From my observation, the Explorer is more preferred, at least here in the West. They are replacing Chargers, too, because of their versatility.

Yup, agreed. According to @GMBoy, the QC issues I observed on the Yukon were well-known by GM, but they've yet to deal with them. FCA/Stellantis has been aware of the oil cooler issue for what must be almost a decade now and when you get it replaced by the dealership, you are getting yet another plastic unit that will eventually fail.

 

[edyvw]

Yup, agreed. According to @GMBoy, the QC issues I observed on the Yukon were well-known by GM, but they've yet to deal with them. FCA/Stellantis has been aware of the oil cooler issue for what must be almost a decade now and when you get it replaced by the dealership, you are getting yet another plastic unit that will eventually fail.

When Dorman is upgrade, I really don't want to know the rest of the car.

 

[GMBoy]

When Dorman is upgrade, I really don't want to know the rest of the car.

Dorman is mostly trash for sure but the one thing that they did right was the aluminum cooler for the Pentastars.

 

[OVERKILL]

Dorman is mostly trash for sure but the one thing that they did right was the aluminum cooler for the Pentastars.

Yep, Dorman has the odd gem, this is one of them.

 

[Thebigm]

Am I seeing this right? I went to both on their webpages and these are all I saw on their vehicle lineup
5 models on sale for Dodge (Hornet, Charger, Challenger, Durango and Ram Truck)
3 models on sale for Chrysler (Pacifica, Pacifica Hybrid and 500)

Stellantis happened

 

[Thebigm]

Am I seeing this right? I went to both on their webpages and these are all I saw on their vehicle lineup
5 models on sale for Dodge (Hornet, Charger, Challenger, Durango and Ram Truck)
3 models on sale for Chrysler (Pacifica, Pacifica Hybrid and 500)

I believe there will no longer be a Dodge/Chrysler,,/Jeep in 5-6 yrs

 

[Thebigm]

The government bailed out Chrysler in 1980

 

[D60]

That may be regional, as I see more and more Durangos here locally now, and the Explorers are disappearing. That's both OPP and city police. They seem to go through "phases", probably depending on who is giving them the best deal, but I assume this also includes officer feedback. It would be really nice if Stellantis acknowledged the heat exchanger problem and fitted an aluminum one that resembled the Dorman replacement so that LEO forces didn't have to deal with that inevitable failure.

Around here CDOT and CSP love the Durangos (maybe they just thought it was cute in Durango, CO).

I rode past three CDOT guys the other day on a quiet state highway. They had each driven a Durango individually to a small bridge and were just standing there looking over the edge. Three guys, three new Durangos, just standing there. Now I know why I pay .29 per package delivered to me with our new Colorado tax.

 

[ripcord]

The government bailed out Chrysler in 1980

GM and Chrysler were both bailed out again in 2008 through the TARP bailout. They got about 1/5th of the bailout money appropriated by Congress after the subprime mortgage crisis.

 

[OVERKILL]

GM and Chrysler were both bailed out again in 2008 through the TARP bailout. They got about 1/5th of the bailout money appropriated by Congress after the subprime mortgage crisis.

Yup, and GM shareholders were screwed and a large portion of that money was never recovered. Fiat bought Chrysler and the government got their money back.

 

[ripcord]

Yup, and GM shareholders were screwed and a large portion of that money was never recovered. Fiat bought Chrysler and the government got their money back.

Yep. There was a lot of criticism at the time that the Obama administration screwed over the GM share and bond holders and gave all the $$ to union.

 

[daves87rs]

That video is kinda on, but not really.

BYD has an interest in both the GTC, and buying a few divisions (Chrysler, Dodge) so that can get their footprint here around those “other” issues keeping them out of the US.

There is a major reason why the are doing very little- the company will be filing for chapter 11, which will give them control to do what it takes to make them more money.

Then watch the job cuts and trips to Mexico begin.

You’ll barely recognize much in a few short years…..