What happened here?

Splicer65 · Mar 31, 2003

Hello all, reading for a while but now have one I need opinions on. Pictured is a L15465

Purolator from an '03 MINI S. Element in a canister style (BMW). The OEM looked perfect at 2K, this one followed and went 3K. Anyone ever see this happen before?

thanks
Paul

digitaldrifter91 · Mar 31, 2003

how does it look inside? is there a metal sleeve there?

Neil Womack · Mar 31, 2003

Is the pictured cartridge also an OEM filter? If not what brand?

BOBISTHEOILGUY · Mar 31, 2003

possible bypass valve stuck closed and upon acceleration, the oil pump produced a higher pressure than what the filter could allow to pass though, with a stuck bypass valve, can cause the filter media to collapse. This also can cause an engine to starve for oil if not careful.

Mike_dup1 · Mar 31, 2003

I would not use that brand again.

What vehicle is a 03 Mini S ?

I would be more likely to assume a filter that is not up to the task for this car. Use OEM and monitor to see if it ever happends again.

[ April 01, 2003, 08:17 AM: Message edited by: Mike ]

Pablo · Mar 31, 2003

Looks to me like the filter is not up to the job....what brand is this filter you used on your mini???

This happens and I have seen it on lower end filters, as described by Bob, especially filters that are not nearly strong enough internally. We had a discussion way back about the importance of outer shell thickness and how one filter was better than another because one shell was .002" thicker - the point was brought up that internals will fail (as yours has) long before the filter "blows up"......

labman · Mar 31, 2003

Is it possibler the replacement filter was too tall for the housing, and when you screwed the lid down, it compressed it? Perhaps the canister failed to seat into a recess and was compressed. Could you see any sign of the pleats pulling away from the end caps, or the end caps pulling away from the center tube?

Please let all of us know what brand. I am curious about how much you paid. I am burned big time about paying $8 for just media and plastic end caps on the PF 2244G my Caviler takes. Why should it cost over twice as much to leave out the metal shell and mounting plate? I think I can still get a spin on PF 52 at Advance Auto for under $3.

Splicer65 · Mar 31, 2003

The Filter pictured is a Purolator L15465 aftermarket replacement type. The OEM did have a plasiic cage internally, but this one had nothing inside. The only markings on the OEM were BMW, but my guess would be a Mann. I did compare before installation and both were physically the same height. Sorry, I thought they were more visible. MINI USA

Advance auto parts sells these for $6.99 ea.

[ April 01, 2003, 10:48 AM: Message edited by: Splicer65 ]

TheLoneRanger · Mar 31, 2003

That filter looks like it has been twisted rather than collapsed. Could the screw-on cap have twisted it when it was installed???

jason07-1zzfe · Mar 31, 2003

I'll tell you why...
You must use OE filters. BMW wants a very high flow filter (see my permeability tests). My bet is the media on that Purolator flows no where near what the BMW unit does (I have seen no filters yet that do). Coupled with the high bypass BMW uses, collapsed that baby in no time.

Go to dealer for your filter. The ones for newer 3series are actually cheaper than what you paid at advance auto. I don't see why yours would be any different.

[ April 01, 2003, 11:57 AM: Message edited by: Jason Troxell ]

FowVay · Apr 1, 2003

I second what Jason is saying... Use the OEM filters. You aren't saving any huge amount of money with the aftermarket and it obviously isn't up to the task. It won't be long before you can buy private label Mann or Mahle filters for the car but until then I'd go to the dealership. Most dealers will give a sizeable discount if you buy 6 or more filters simply for the asking.

Splicer65 · Apr 1, 2003

The main issue with the filters was not one of cost, but rather availability. There are only about 70 MINI dealers in the US, and many owners are quite a distance away. OEMs are $7.40 at my dealer BUT are reported to top $15 at some.
OEM is IN.

Paul

Ray H · Apr 1, 2003

Was the pictured filter one of the infamous "Indian" Purolators?

RalphPWood · Apr 2, 2003

It's not very complicated. The filter was doing it's job. When it reached it's capacity the oil stopped going through it. Then it was a matter of which happened first. The filter collapsed because it wasn't as strong as the spring in the relief valve. It's a matter of changing the filter before it clogs up. Going to a stronger filter doesn't help because the relief valve would open and unfiltered oil would reach the parts. Using a higher flow rate filter doesn't help because the higher the flow rate the dirtier the oil.
I would never have that problem because my submicronic bypass filter keeps the full flow filter clean. Except with my Camry which has no full flow filter. The full flow filter is almost useless until the contamination starts bunching up into larger particles (agglomeration) then the filter is overwhelmed. The relief valve doesn't stick closed, they are fool proof. Dirty oil can cause the oil pump relief valve to stick open or closed. I see filter collapse on big Detroits at work for fuel. The gear pump for the fuel will crush the secondary fuel filter and tear it. Then the dirty fuel will destroy the injection system. It's cheaper to change the filter or install a submicronic fuel filter upstream and change it. With the gear pumps on the Detroit if the filter doesn't rupture internally the housing will split.

Ralph

jason07-1zzfe · Apr 2, 2003

Oh God

Yes a higher flowing filter will help. That is what it comes with from the factory. Is he supposed to change the filter every week?

edit: Never mind that the aftermarket wannabes will cause lifter tick at startup. Don't know if he had it but seen it on the E36. I think Pablo had it on a Volvo too. They simply do not flow enough even when brand new. Nothing to do with too much dirt in system.

[ April 03, 2003, 09:30 AM: Message edited by: Jason Troxell ]

msparks · Apr 2, 2003

Looks to me that the filter might have not been properly installed.

Maybe it wasn't fitted correctly, then force on when they screw the cap on the top. My VW has the same type of setup and you have to be carefull when putting on a new filter.

manualman · Apr 2, 2003

labman,

Check out a local Saturn dealer. I think they'll sell you an OEM Ecotec filter for $5.00. And given the volume GM is now making that engine in, expect more aftermarket availability soon.

I had the same problem with my wife's Olds Intrigue 3.5 V6. Unique engine/filter to a poorly selling car. Bad news for parts prices.

Splicer65 · Apr 3, 2003

Well ,I did get opinions

Consider.... the car has all of 5500 on it now, dirt and clog are not issues. The great thing about elements, there is no hiding! The only way to install incorrectly is backward or cross thread the canister, neither of which happened. In talking with Purolator it seems like a flow issue of sort. MINI changed the canister design for the Supercharged "S" model and incorporated this change to all MINIs sometime in mid 2002. Has to do with a "Quick Drain Valve" ? Purolator missed the change, the picture was the result.

Thanks All
Paul

labman · Apr 3, 2003

quote:

Originally posted by manualman:
labman,

Check out a local Saturn dealer. I think they'll sell you an OEM Ecotec filter for $5.00. And given the volume GM is now making that engine in, expect more aftermarket availability soon.

I had the same problem with my wife's Olds Intrigue 3.5 V6. Unique engine/filter to a poorly selling car. Bad news for parts prices.

Manual man, thanks. The nearest Saturn dealer is over an hour's drive. Still I do make it that way now and then. I am hoping finding the WIX and Hasting parts numbers will solve the problem, but your idea give me an option I wouldn't have thought of. My local Chevy dealer wants $8. I can't stand the way they arch their eyebrows at the thought of me attempting complicated, critical maintenance like changing my own oil.

I am getting sick of GM and weird new filters. I had trouble at first finding what ever my 92 Grand AM called for originally, now PF42. That was when I hadn't learned to use the oversize PF 52 yet. Big bummer was my 77 LUV when it was new. It took a PF 9, $5 at the pro parts store. That was high in 1977. The EMPI from K-Mart blew its gasket. Eventually I found Fram had a filter to fit. Never bought another one after I cut a few filters apart.

I'm learning, I'm learning.

What happened here?

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