What do you conclude about a "loud" oil?

My experience in sound change is from using motor oil with different base oil blends in a 650cc Suzuki V-Strom motorcycle, where there is very little in the way that insulates the engine sounds from the rider, unlike a on car or truck.

I did 3 OCis in a row with M1 10W40 4T in the API SM variety, starting at 3900 miles on the odometer. The guys in the motorcycle board speculated it was high PAO + med VISOM + small amts of AN. I thought the valve train sounded tappy with the bike in motion, kind of like a sewing machine, or dare I say it, a minor exhaust leak. I was concerned that maybe the engine needed a valve adjustment, and that the engine/ clutch/ gearbox were hard on oil, because in all 3 OCIs the shifting went downhill after 2k miles.

After I used up that supply, I put in Motul 300V 10W40, supposedly high level of POE & DiE + med PAO + small amts of Gr III. It was a tremendous difference - all I could hear was combustion and exhaust note.

About 2k mi into that first 300V OCI with the maintenance interval was reached for valve check (~15k), and the tech at the dealer told me all 8 valve gaps were right in the middle of the tolerance range, and no adjustment was necessary. He also told some really stupid stuff, like synthetic oil caused sludge and carbon buildup, that it harms engines and makes them wear out faster because it's made out of chemicals and not crude oil, and any veteran mechanic doesn't need to waste time using a torque wrench. And that was the last time I ever went back for any service at that dealer.

While above is my anecdotal experience, the physicist/ engineer mind in me believes that there's more than viscous forces at work between the molecules in the 300V - the ester molecules are polar, have electrostatic attraction forces, and compete for surface adhesion. It seems like causing esters to transmit sound waves would cause them to absorb more of the vibrational energy while positionally displacing/ varying the level of electrostatic bonds to each other, likely converting some percentage of the vibrational motion into minute quantities of heat, thus dampening the transmission of sound waves.
 
And likely no one here with that meter would have the experience on how to use and develop a study with data that would stand up to professional peer review. Plus, a meter is not good enough, you would need to do spectral anaylsis over the freq range and likely weigh specific bands.

And as we have found in the High Fidelity world in the 70's and 80's, most of the measured data have NO correlation to perceived sound quality. They were measuring the wrong thing using tools developed in an age where design technology and performance was so poor that "the wrong thing" carried more weight but was now irrelevant..
Correct you are. This is my forte as a past electrical engineer (telecom emphasis) turned technical manager. A dB meter presents an "incomplete" audio spectrum summation only. Whereas, a current day spectrum analyzer would correctly graph spectral frequency (F) on the x-axis versus voltage (V peak) amplitude spikes whose widths are characterized by F on the y-axis -- in a 2-D breakdown of the natural hearing spectrum when upper and lower frequency limits (20 - 20,000 Hz) are provisioned into the spec-an. The graphing could become 3-D if the amplitudes were color skewed at an angle into the background to represent a limited few seconds of displacement over time (T).

A spectrum analyzer would correctly display, and some record said display over time (using a USB-connected PC), measured audio sound pressures and mechanically felt vibrations through the use of microphones, piezoelectric transducers and certain intermediate stage amplification. Such testing and discoveries, call it RDT&E, would be terribly fun. Such measurements would be somewhat definitive, assuming reasonably controlled testing took place.

Technology is a wonderful thing. So are old-school methods! Integration of both requires wisdom gained through decades of experience.

With the help of a professor or three, I bet some graduate engineering (automotive?) student could concoct an examination of this very discussion -- quite a paper and thesis could be written. This topic could be put to bed.

Still, I stand by my assertion that MY ears are more technical than others here! :)

 
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I have a buddy who is a drummer in a metal band. He's the loudest drummer out there and gives it 100% non-stop while playing. Even with the band making my ears bleed with the sound level, he can tell if the bass or guitar have a single string even just slightly out of tune in the middle of a song, stop the song (practice sessions) and have them fix the tuning, which he is correct every time.

If someone can do that, then it's not unlikely that someone with normal hearing ability could hear VVT locking pin rattle on cold starts. Or any other noise on an instrument they listen to for hours a week or day.
so im a professional drummer for 29years now,practice and teach drums12 hours a day for the last 27years all i do is listen,i hear things instantly that people dont hear their whole life and i can tell u ive been using the vanilla m1 and redline and the engine sounded exactly the same.it all depends in the specific engine.
never understood why many say the vanilla m1 is loud,had it for 5years and maybe15 oc in my v6 na cts and the car was dead silent,moved to redline for the last 2ocis and it was the same.and i mean exactly the same.now i use amsoil in my cx5,my neighbor has the same car and uses a super generic semi and the cars are equally quiet.used magnetic,8100 eco lite and amsoil it this car,its all the same sound wise.
 
I use loud oils and these muffs
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Is that moly? If so, no muffs needed. She is VERY quiet. You want smooth engine, moly will do it. Not the additive version as I've never used one. I think Toyota likes to make noisy engines and then use moly to compensate. lol
 
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And likely no one here with that meter would have the experience on how to use and develop a study with data that would stand up to professional peer review. Plus, a meter is not good enough, you would need to do spectral anaylsis over the freq range and likely weigh specific bands.

Actually yes as I do both ( some noise dosimetry for HSE put primarily UT)- just hand me a PO; However, your second part is what matters because you nailed it so I would like to elaborate on it some.

The anecdotal "conversational" use of a cell app Amazon toy to get a "number' ( which is meaningless for anything other than saying "yeah, its loud") doesn't answer or solve anything.

There is no doubt that minute differences between various oils can and will cause mechanical reactions within a machine and many of them will be in the band of human hearing. ( these differences are what we look for do distinguish and identify problems)

The problem is that "loud' is subjective, "noise is indistinguishable from the aggregate signal without specialized skills and equipment and what we hear is not interpreted against specific freqs- its interpreted against an individuals mind and experience.

Then lets add the fact we have bi-aural hearing so now depth, distance and perception play into what we hear. ( not an accurate representation of exact amplitude and frequency of the oscillations)

So the question of does product X "influence' more "noise' than product Y ( or measure a state of degradation of a specific product) can easily be answered and its done all the time. and we can tell how much and in most cases specifically by major part/assembly and location.

But, it takes time and costs a good bit of money.
 
I still remember a few things from one of my electronics classes in college:

Noise is an unwanted signal.

If listening to a certain AM/FM channel, tuning into any other frequency is noise.

If an engine purrs very loud we like it but a very low tick is an unwanted signal/sound and bothers us.

Don't know why but i still remember from that class someone wrote/carved on of the chairs "World needs AC/DC" using AC/DC band logo.
someone else wrote under it "AC/DC is a loud noise the world can do without ".

I used to spend a lot of time reading the stuff since the professor was so boring. lol
 
Correct you are. This is my forte as a past electrical engineer (telecom emphasis) turned technical manager. A dB meter presents an "incomplete" audio spectrum summation only. ... .

With the help of a professor or three, I bet some graduate engineering (automotive?) student could concoct an examination of this very discussion -- quite a paper and thesis could be written. This topic could be put to bed.

Still, I stand by my assertion that MY ears are more technical than others here! :)
Ahh, telecom. I spend a couple decades working at Bell Labs and AT&T. Then there was the audiophile hobby in the 80's and 90's. and a few amateur recording gigs of the local church choir and also rock bands - but not at the same time! ( you can't always get ... )
A bit of time fiddling with mic selection and placement placement and monitoring the results and making adjustment can teach much.
-Ken
 
Ahh, telecom. I spend a couple decades working at Bell Labs and AT&T. Then there was the audiophile hobby in the 80's and 90's. and a few amateur recording gigs of the local church choir and also rock bands - but not at the same time! ( you can't always get ... )
A bit of time fiddling with mic selection and placement placement and monitoring the results and making adjustment can teach much.
-Ken
Yes. You can't always get what you want ...

The placement of multiple microphones and transducers would help the cause, as would audio equalization found through a pink noise generator -- akin to a spectrum analyzer's tracking generator at radio frequencies. Regards.
 
No one likes to spend the $$, but getting top shelf sound transducers/ mics like Bruel & Kjaer test instrumentation with properly calibrated preamps is the biggest hurdle to getting finely detailed electrical signals into analysers and recording equipment.
 
An oil that seems to have a reputation for making an engine louder. I have one of those oils in a vehicle now and it is noticeably louder. Do you believe it's protecting less? More friction?

I don't see how a 'louder' oil could be louder without allowing more friction.

But I'm no engineer.

Thoughts?
I don't think they protect any less. My guess is the properties of the oil transfer noise vibration easier rather than damping. I had pup in my fit one time and it was loud enough to hear clearly the noise was echoing off the street if I had the windows down. Running a redline there was a noticible reduction in noise, however it didnt silence the lifter tick even after adjustment. redline did completely silence all noises from my odyssey.

After 3 years of trying different oils I found a oil with a viscosity of 10 at 100 c seems to quiet both down, along higher pao and poe content. Just my observations, and my wife's who doesn't pay attention to these things unless they are obvious. She admits the new fill in both are near silent.
 
No one likes to spend the $$, but getting top shelf sound transducers/ mics like Bruel & Kjaer test instrumentation with properly calibrated preamps is the biggest hurdle to getting finely detailed electrical signals into analysers and recording equipment.
Likely so! Good mention.
 
I still remember a few things from one of my electronics classes in college:

Noise is an unwanted signal.

If listening to a certain AM/FM channel, tuning into any other frequency is noise.

If an engine purrs very loud we like it but a very low tick is an unwanted signal/sound and bothers us.

Don't know why but i still remember from that class someone wrote/carved on of the chairs "World needs AC/DC" using AC/DC band logo.
someone else wrote under it "AC/DC is a loud noise the world can do without ".

I used to spend a lot of time reading the stuff since the professor was so boring. lol
I had a GMC Canyon … it was top of the line with V8, leather etc … but still a Tin-Can-yon. So had to work on noise. Started with front doors … DynaMat with CCF over that. Better, but a new sounding noise at my feet. Pulled back carpet … did metal on floorboard. Wait, what’s that new sound behind me ? Did back doors. Yet another rear sound ! Pulled out rear seat and did vertical and horizontal metal. Nice quiet truck now.
So noise is coming from all over - and it would really take an expensive electronic spread to analyze an engine bay … In fact, if an oil makes the internals sound different - and now I’m hearing the HPFI or other ancillary kit … it might sound noisier to certain human ears … not to instrumentation .
 
When the sound difference is large enough, it doesn't take a machine or highly trained musician to hear it.

Check out this video. I know this guy is hated around these parts, and this is a test of an engine cleaning and not just changing oil, but the sound difference before and after is dramatic. His engine sound like an old diesel on its last legs, then goes to sounding like a normal 4 banger gas unit. Before I switched oils recently, I was getting a loud VVT rattle on starts quite often. Hasn't happened once since changing the oil. Was it the oil or something else? I don't know, but the sound difference is clear as day.

 
I am actually seeking to DISprove that an oil can be loud.

So, if my present fill needs top-up... I am selecting Mobil 1 0W-40 to add, to show to myself that it is not louder than anything else.

It has to be a myth.
 
I am actually seeking to DISprove that an oil can be loud.

So, if my present fill needs top-up... I am selecting Mobil 1 0W-40 to add, to show to myself that it is not louder than anything else.

It has to be a myth.
M1 0w40 should according to you up the noise?
The thing has a lot of PAO and has a generous moly additive pack if anything it'll smooth things out inside the engine.
 
Pennzoil,Quaker State,and Redline are legendary for running quiet. All three have high ppm of moly.
 
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