What can beat a Civic?

[badtlc]

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My experience with a brand new AT ford focus (2006 MY) wasnt so good. It is the same drivetrain as the mazda 3, right??? It was pushing it to get 33 MPG consistently on long highway drives (and I did lots of them, from Phila. to Atlanta, more or less). I exceed EPA estimates on all my cars, so I can't imagine it to be an operator issue...

That is why it is hard for me to believe that 40 MPG is possible on those cars.

JMH

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The mazda3s with the 2.3L, might have the same transmision as the focus, the Mazda3i with the 2.0l has a different ATX, i think.

As for the 2.3L engine common in the focus, i have a mazda6i with the 2.3l and what i think is the ford 5spd ATX. I can get 33-34mpg on the hwy so i'm not complaining.

 

[Bill in Utah]

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Mazda3, and for me it is not even a contest. 40mpg with looks, value, and performance???? I really find it hard to beat that in my book.

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Since when does a mazda 3 get 40 MPG??? When it does (EPA), then itll be a good player, and the car to beat.

JMH

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Who cares about flawed EPA estimates. I dont care what the EPA says, i care about real world numbers. Everyone I know with the mazda3i (which still has 150hp) regardless of ATX or MTX achieve 40mpg on their highway trips.

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FYI.

I have a co-worker who has a 5 speed 2.0l model and the best he has seen with his car in 20k miles is 36mpg all highway staying around 68mph.

He drives in a mpg mindset. So, there is one who is not seeing 40 mpg...

Take care, bill

 

[Bill in Utah]

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2007 Outback 2.5I Wagon 5 @ $18,990

2007 Forester 2.5X % @ $17,990

2007 Outback 2.5I Wagon 2 @ $19,988

They even a NEW 2007 B9 Tribeca @ $25,990

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Those numbers are so far out of our market.

Here, except the B9 (which they can not sell) all the Subarus are at least $3k higher then the prices you have listed.

plus, do any of them get 40 mpg like the topic of this thread gets?

Again, I like the Subaru Forester and Outback, but they are expensive and don't get that good of MPG.

Take care, bill

 

[mshu7]

As I posted earlier in this thread, I have an '05 Mazda3 2.3L 5-spd. manual. It's great on gas. The Mazda3's that have reported bad gas mileage are the 2004-2005 4-speed automatics. For 2006, they put a 5-speed automatic. I'm sure gas mileage has improved with those.

Anyway, here are my stats on my fill-ups since July:

Date Odometer Trip Gallons MPG Notes
07/03/06 19,545 258 7.904 33 Shell 87 + 3oz. Lucas UCL
07/04/06 19,746 200 6.287 32 Shell 87 + 2oz. Lucas UCL
07/16/06 19,987 242 7.744 31 Shell 87 + 4oz. Lucas UCL
07/29/06 20,239 252 8.171 31 Shell 87 + 3oz. Lucas UCL
08/07/06 20,368 130 3.757 34 Shell 87 + 3oz. Lucas UCL
08/19/06 20,590 217 7.082 31 Shell 87 + 2oz. Lucas UCL
08/29/06 20,873 282 8.871 32 Shell 87
09/06/06 21,182 309 8.878 35 Shell 87 + 3oz. Lucas UCL
09/14/06 21,463 281 8.936 31 Shell 87 + 3oz. Lucas UCL
09/21/06 21,773 310 9.796 32 Shell 87 + 3oz. Lucas UCL
09/29/06 22,163 390 11.510 34 Shell 87 + 4oz. Lucas UCL
10/05/06 22,513 350 11.450 31 Shell 87 + 4oz. Lucas UCL; oil change (PP 5w20)

 

[mshu7]

Edit: I mis-read a post.

 

[JHZR2]

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Maybe it wasn't fully broken in yet?

I don't know how much difference that makes but on MY 06 Saab 93 I got at most 29MPG and that was driving on B-roads (Germany's equivalant to, oh, I dunno, US or state highways) at around 55-60MPH.

I expect it will get better mileage as time goes on.

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I had the focus for over 10k miles... It shoul dhave ben broken in by the time I turned it in with 14k on it...

My saab got great economy right out of the box. Keep in mind that you have the 210 hp version, (likely with the 6sp, which may be geared differently), and the 210 hp has a bigger turbo and probably bigger injectors than my 175 hp powerplant, which is more or less identical otherwise.

What was the EPA specs on yours? Mine was 26 city (IIRC), and definitely listed as 34 highway.

JMH

 

[JHZR2]

mshu,

no offense, but those numbers, given the size of the car, are poor. Only the 35 MPG number is decent.

Fun to drive or not, well put together or not, it should be 35 MPG minimum, and you should be listing 37+ MPG numbers as standard fare.

JMH

 

[toocrazy2yoo]

Still waiting for the Hyundai contingent to open fire here..

You guys are talking about standard grade econoboxes for UNDER $20,000 dollars? Yall MUST be kidding me...

 

[brianl703]

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What was the EPA specs on yours? Mine was 26 city (IIRC), and definitely listed as 34 highway.

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22 city / 31 highway for the 2006 B207R (my engine). The 2003 B207L (your engine) is 23 city / 31 highway. The 2004 B207L is 23 city / 33 highway.

I've theorized before that these figures can vary up to 5% because they use a chassis dyno and that's what dynos are typical stated accuracy-wise.

I have the 5-speed manual by the way..

 

[JHZR2]

However, my window sticker says 34 MPG highway!!!

I dont know why, there were two certifications done that year, as the number did change...

My car is a 2004, BTW, and mine is an early MY 04 - I suppose they changed the number from 34 to 33 early on in the MY.

I dont understand it, but I wont complain about the results either... In fact, Im more than happy!

JMH

 

[brianl703]

Anyhow, my current car, the 1996 Contour, gets EPA-rated 31mpg highway and it's easily beaten. I've gotten 33-34 out of it before. It also has a bigger engine (2.5L V6). It's also about 141,000 miles and 11 years old.

I never did get a chance to check the tire pressure on the Saab..wonder if it was maybe a bit low?

 

[Bill in Utah]

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Still waiting for the Hyundai contingent to open fire here..

You guys are talking about standard grade econoboxes for UNDER $20,000 dollars? Yall MUST be kidding me...

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My 42 MPG avg overall for 61k miles 2005 Toyota Corolla was LESS than $14.5k out the door!

Never been back to the Stealership for anything and is on its way to 300k+.

Take care, bill

 

[JHZR2]

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Anyhow, my current car, the 1996 Contour, gets EPA-rated 31mpg highway and it's easily beaten. I've gotten 33-34 out of it before. It also has a bigger engine (2.5L V6). It's also about 141,000 miles and 11 years old.

I never did get a chance to check the tire pressure on the Saab..wonder if it was maybe a bit low?

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Likely!!

If you have the 16" wheels, the tire pressure is 41 front, 38 rear.. Im sure that the bigger wheels, with smaller sidewalls, would need the same pressure, and that running so high has something to do with MPG... No adverse wear on the P6 tires after 24k.

JMH

 

[JHZR2]

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My 42 MPG avg overall for 61k miles 2005 Toyota Corolla was LESS than $14.5k out the door!

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"overall" doesnt mean much, since youre obviously dong all highway driving to rack up that many miles in such a short time.

But thats irrelevant - cant beat those numbers!!!! Thats great!

a 1.8L engine isa nice size little engine. I have one (granted less efficient) in my BMW 318i. More or less the same size/weight car, Im sure - an E30 3 series is not a big car, much smaller than the newer ones. I love the way the 1.8L propels it, works well, and has just enough power to drive great, but small enough to keep weight down and efficiency high.

JMH

 

[Papa Bear]

"Re: What can beat a Civic?"

2 Civics ..

 

[TheTanSedan]

What can beat a Civic?

That's easy. My 2001 DODGE Ram that averages 12-13 mpg in town. Complete, total, cost-of-ownership in 2005 absolutely every $ included CENTS-PER-MILES: .05


Of course, that was after the tax deductions.

A new Civic is at least .39 cents-per-mile. Or, about $8-9,000 in the first year of ownership at 15,000 miles.

My non-reimbursed cost is .41. And I ran 20,000 miles so my pre-tax cost was about $8,200; a full-sze four-door pickup truck that is hundreds of dollars cheaper to own and run the same number of miles annually as a new Civic. Hunh.

And after the bath in the first year, the Civic is $90 month cheaper (before taxes), but has zero utility beyond carrying a few midgets.

I really hope you guys ain't arguing over gas mileage. The numbers don't add up in significance compared to depreciation, finance costs, insurance and the loss from not having used the money from those three in any sound investment. Plenty of good used cars beat a new Civic in ownership costs/overall utility.

So if you like it, buy it. One little Asian death-trap is the same as any other in the end.

 

[Tosh]

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I really hope you guys ain't arguing over gas mileage.

One little Asian death-trap is the same as any other in the end.

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Yes, let's instead argue about the ways a big, heavy, body on frame pickup truck is safer than a passenger car.

 

[toocrazy2yoo]

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My 42 MPG avg overall for 61k miles 2005 Toyota Corolla was LESS than $14.5k out the door!

Never been back to the Stealership for anything and is on its way to 300k+.

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Nice.. I bought my Hyundai AccentGT, end of model year 2005 in Feb. of 06. 3Dr Hatch. Course, it's small. BUT, it's bigger than my 92 Elantra. Seat adjusts up and down, gives me 3 or 4 inches of head room (I'm 6'1"). Seat is one notch from the end, so plenty of legroom. 4'Ladder goes across the back seat, lays flat. Fold the seat down, a 6" ladder goes lengthwise (Sometimes they want their plasma screens higher up the wall). The hatch area is bigger than the trunk of the 92 Elantra, which was adequate.

Air, Nice sound system, 6-channels W/tweeters, AM/FM/CD, Stock built in fogs, power windows, Hatch wiper. Side Air bagsStiffer GT suspension, and same tires and wheels as on the Corolla S even though the car weighs less, so it handles a little better. 5Spd, 1.6L

I get 42 and 43 on the ROAD, no AC, but even full-load AC in the city I'm getting 36. I have a friend with the Corolla S, and city-wise he isn't getting that, and off the line, I pull him dead even from a dead stop, so there isn't much performance difference, but I'm sure the Accent is at least 500LB lighter.

Price? $10,600 delivered new, with the 60K/100K warranty. Included in that was my 92 Elantra with 288,000 miles on it. So it's as long-lived as a Toyota, maintained correctly.

$10,600! New! Ok, ok, so it's a Hyundai. But I'm tellin ya, boys, it's a pretty much of a full featured ride, for low-price, for thousands and thousands less than my buddy's 05 Corolla S (he got out the door for 15K, but bought his before the end of 2005). His is more popular with the auto thieves, too, and he's paying somewhat of a premium for his comprehensive. Now, I'm not at all happy with the Hyundai dealers here, but even Toyota seems to have slipped some, EVERY brand has it's tales of woe. THAT is why they're the Stealership.

I'm not even going to mention what my ex-wife paid for her 2006 Civic something or other (basic basic EX, but it has automatic tranny). Nearly 20K. And, it's not any fancier, feature wise, than my two year older AccentGT (curtain airbags, antilock brakes, which I hate anyway), but I've driven it while out with my daughter, learner's permit training

, and straight-line, balz-to-the-wall, it also is no faster than my Accent.

The lines are really getting narrow between the brands in this class, fellas. Everything else is brands, and RicerMod-Ability. Remember. $10,600. $10,600. $10,600

 

[mshu7]

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mshu,

no offense, but those numbers, given the size of the car, are poor. Only the 35 MPG number is decent.

Fun to drive or not, well put together or not, it should be 35 MPG minimum, and you should be listing 37+ MPG numbers as standard fare.

JMH

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Well, the ratings for the car are 26/32 so I consider my nubmers pretty good. Plus, this is the upper level engine, not the base engine.

I never said anything about this car being king of the MPG war. I mean, already said that the 3 won't be the Civic in fuel economy. Instead, it's a car that people would WANT to drive. It's not your standard "economy" car and that's why I bought it. I don't want to drive an appliance (Civic/Corolla). IMO, if you don't care about anything other than getting from point A to point B, you drive a Civic/Corolla. If you want something more sporty and fun to drive, you get a 3.

BTW, the best I've gotten on the highway is 42 MPG. So much for that "poor" gas mileage.

 

[Auto-Union]

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I really hope you guys ain't arguing over gas mileage.

One little Asian death-trap is the same as any other in the end.

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Yes, let's instead argue about the ways a big, heavy, body on frame pickup truck is safer than a passenger car.

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Well ...once you decided you are going to hit something rather than avoid it.