What can beat a Civic?

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I really hope you guys ain't arguing over gas mileage.

One little Asian death-trap is the same as any other in the end.


Yes, let's instead argue about the ways a big, heavy, body on frame pickup truck is safer than a passenger car.




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Well ...once you decided you are going to hit something rather than avoid it.



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Yeah, Union, don't ya LOVE that? SO much easier to avoid something. These little panic-prissies that slam on the brakes and just plow on into whatever they're about to hit KILL me.

Instead of learning to drive the vehicle and remaining aware of their space, via peripheral vision and swiveling the eyeballs so they'll know where their escape is, they just buy bigger and bigger vehicles to crash into the rest of us with, so THEY will be safer.

I see it every day around here with the weenie-boy NASCAR wanna-bes in their over-wrought Corvettes and Ricers flying around all over the place, but when they get in trouble? Close the eyes, slam on the brakes, wait for the impact. Schweenies. They also remind of the OTHER weenies of the road, sport-bike-weenies. You know the ones. Gay-Leathers, like for real at the track, only the street. I always know a mutt. They brake primarily with the rear brake like a girlie-girl on a two wheeler with coaster brakes. Harley guys do that too, with their ankles splayed out on the highway pegs, like a chick at the Gynocologist with her feet in stirrups. They get in trouble, all of a sudden, the right foot slams on the pavement, one bounce and back up to the rear brake. Idiots..
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You can always tell a pro. Maybe a little fast, filtering through the traffic, but not barnstorming. Head a-swivel, alert, aware. A pro on a bike? One indicator. As he's riding along, working the throttle, the gears, yeah, the pro's head in on the swivel, the mirrors, and aware, but the REAL, REAL pro?

THAT's the guy that's got two fingers draped over and covering the front brake WHILE he's manipulating the throttle. THAT's the survivor on the road where bikes are concerned, and I see too few riders doing it. That's a precious two seconds that'll save yer bacon, especially out in the canyons.

Harley pilots? Around here? Hopeless..
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Ok, ok, enuff of this rant. I'm ready to go take my gal out for some dinner now..

Have a good night yall!
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So alone......

huddled in the shanty. Alone.

Nary a friend.

A lone tiny voice squeeking out, saying "Look at the Cobalt."

A lone voice amidst a horde of hollerers shouting out support for any and everything but a Cobalt.

So alone.............





LOL, you may be on to something there. The most relatively trouble free and fun car I ever had was a Cavalier
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TanSedan,

Either you got one heck of a tax deduction to offset the entire purchase price of the vehicle, or you are not treating the tax deduction and purchase or lease price in the same fashion. (I.E. you are counting a one time tax deduction against this years costs vs only counting this years payments in the cost figures.)

Even my $2500 used Geo Prizm that averages 32 MPG costs $0.13x/mile, not counting the deduction I get for work related mileage.

Even then, it's only the work related miles that are essentially free, given my incremental tax rate, the standard mileage deduction. That 0.44/mile becomes about $0.132/mile in tax liability reduction.

So keep in mind that you don't get your deduction off your tax liability, but your income.

Just color me skeptical that your real costs, when everything is considered for the first year are $0.05/mile on a new vehicle of any size.
 
I'm not sure how TanSedan is getting his figures.

Nevertheless, apparently VW has dropped the sticker prices by about $1k for the 07 model year for their Jetta, so I may be able to get a Jetta VE Auto for $17-$17.5k.

Got a few quotes for the Civic. Best I can get so far for the EX is $19k. Hopefully prices will drop in the next few months.
 
Why are you torturing us with the idea of buying a VW? (And a wacky 5 cylinder at that?) Or are you trying to get back at your parents for something? Why are you comparing basement trim Jetta with top of line Civic EX? What car do they want? What colors do they like? Have you taken them to actually sit in something, or will this remain a best-on-paper exercise?
 
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Ex Mazda owner I can tell you that even though Mazda builds excellent car, they fall short of the Honda in many aspects, most important being engine, apart from Mazda's rotary, nothing from Mazda comes close to Honda in terms of refinement, performance or reliability.




LOLOL that was a good one, do you do stand-up?

The Mazda L-series engine is incredibly stout. It is now used in all 4cylinder Fords (world class?) which would be Ford's best decision in terms of reliability. The Honda K-series has nothing more going for it, other than the iVTEC found on the K20A2/Z3. Both engine blocks are world class. But, while the Honda K-series has the iVTEC, again Mazda's 2.3L 'DISI' Direct Gasoline Injection I4 produces 280ft/lbs @ 2500rpm...STOCK... think about the crankpin forces of 280ft/lbs distributed along 4 rod journals, as opposed to 6 or 8 rod journals. You had better build an extremely ridgid engine block to withstand such a powerand. Mazda L3-VDT FTW
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"Got a few quotes for the Civic. Best I can get so far for the EX is $19k."

Found an 06 Taurus with 8k miles for less than $13k. It was originally priced higher than a fancier 06 model with about the same miles, so they dropped price so that it made sense model wise.
 
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Why are you torturing us with the idea of buying a VW? (And a wacky 5 cylinder at that?) Or are you trying to get back at your parents for something? Why are you comparing basement trim Jetta with top of line Civic EX? What car do they want? What colors do they like? Have you taken them to actually sit in something, or will this remain a best-on-paper exercise?



We're going to go out and look in the near future.

Basement trim Jetta is actually equivalent in features to the Civic EX, with the exception of the Alloy Wheels and Moonroof.

One thing the Jetta does have, that the Civic doesn't, is the Electronic Stability Program.
 
The ESP on my 2002 A4 was incredible. If it sucked, I'd be the 1st to say. When I switched it off on plowed but snow covered roads, I could not believe how much traction the computer was making. My friend has a Jetta GLX and is it super-solid, really nice all around. I did not care for the Jetta III and IV.
 
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Might I also add, that the Jetta has available rear side air bags.
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If we are talking about the same thing then rear side air bags are standard on Civics. Clearly deployed in one of their promo pictures in the Coupe book. Are you looking for a Coupe or a Sedan? have you considered an Si? Yes, it's about 2K more, but Honda finally got their Si act together.
Have you seen an Si on any lots? Test drive one? (All the Mazda's, VW's, etc are available to test. Si's are few and far between. I never even got to sit in one before mine came in.)
I would suspect that very, very few if any of the people making recomendations here have sat in much less driven a Civic Si. I drove everything except an Si!!! People wait for these or pre-order them. They are a very different "trim level" than the EX/LX. If you need/want an automatic then the EX is a great car. That's what I thought I was going to get. Am I glad the wife pushed my to get a Habanero Red Pearl Si!!! Those Canadians put this car together right! Perfect fit and finish. Way to go, Canada.
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Just drove 400+ miles into the mountains today, approaching 1K total. Breakin' it in. Finally went 6K+ rpms a few times here and there. It averaged 35.4 MPG on our drive to Ruidoso! I am VERY surprised.
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It is advertised as 23/32 on my sticker. EX owners I know also get much better than advertised MPG's too. The down side to the Si is you will be lucky to get one at sticker without a boat load of dealer added goodies you don't want or need. I pre-ordered and my EXCELLENT long time salesman got it sticker and the mud guards, trunk mat, all-season rubber mats, window ID etching and wheel locks got thrown in "free" as a "delivery surprise" to a long time customer. His sales manager won't deal $1 on this model. Maybe they will soon if demand slows.

Maybe this will help you negotiate a price on an EX.
I had one dealer FIRST offer me an '06 EX at $18,600 in early September. It's only a guess, but I think you will be lucky to get $500-700 off ANY '07 EX right now. It reminds me of the year the first Accords were sold. Line up and place your order.

Good luck with whatever you buy. May it be trouble free and make you happy your alive to enjoy it!
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I'm getting quoted $19,000 on a Civic EX AT Sedan right now. While it beats your $500-$700 figure, it falls about $1k short of where I'd expect it to be at some point.

I was referring to the rear side air bags, yes. Jetta also comes with seat belt pretensioners for the all three rear seats as well.
 
Any year, make, model of an American made car beats a civic. If someone gave me a civic, I would park it out back, build a wood building around it and ________ on it every morning.
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Yep, Honda and all other Japanese car manufacturers make junk, only US cars are tops. No matter that UN and other organizations of good and dubious nature uses Land Cruisers, guess they really like riding Japanese tin death traps. So let me assume, those who drive Honda and other Japanese marquee are indeed stupid to have shelled out their hard earned money when far better domestic stuff was available to them at lesser cost.
 
"Yep, Honda and all other Japanese car manufacturers make junk, only US cars are tops. No matter that UN and other organizations of good and dubious nature uses Land Cruisers, guess they really like riding Japanese tin death traps."

Some friends had to get rid of their Land Cruiser, as mileage dropped to 10mpg and lower and the dealer couldn't get it fixed. Most though seem to fawn over the model.

For us it wasn't an issue of whether domestic or Japanese was better, I would have purchased either, rather it was who had the most durable configuration that we needed at the best price. There don't seem to be Japanese sedans with bench seats that will seat six, so it was domestic. The Japanese didn't offer a vehicle with a diesel in a larger vehicle, something that I consider essential in a larger vehicle, so I again I ended up with domestic.
 
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