What are the chances these practices go on within the oil industry?

[buster]

Amsoil's SS line did not need a reformulation when it went from SN+ to SI. (GF5 to GF6a)
Just needed new labels from what I read in their quarterly publication.

Neither did Mobil 1.

 

[OilUzer]

Cheap tires meet the spec but they don't last as long and handling is not there and have more road noise, etc.

Maybe when it comes to the engine oil, meeting the spec and exceeding it is not as critical with regular OCIs. However increase the oci, drive and tow in hot weather, drive fast (higher rpm) and use that cheap dino/blend that meets the spec and report back.
Maybe other parts of the car will fall apart before the engine. idk

I think there is a point where the differences become so insignificant that won't justify the price delta. For example with current prices you will get a good return running Syn vs. Dino/blend (both meeting the spec).

 

[Gene K]

The AAA tests make me wonder if some oils don't exceed the standard by wide margins in some areas at least in the bench tests.

We had a conventional that blew every synthetic out of the water in the oxidation test.

We also saw 3 out of 5 conventionals that were extremely low in deposit formation in the TEOST 33C tests.

However the question is, do they have to be that good in the bench tests to pass the actual engine test? I understand the correlation is often not as high as you would like.

 

[Quattro Pete]

However the question is, do they have to be that good in the bench tests to pass the actual engine test?

Depending on spec, some bench tests are actual engine tests.

 

[ecotourist]

I don't want to name names, but one of the boutique brands on their blog made this statement, which is a bold accusation. What are your thoughts on it?

"When a competitor’s oil easily passes an industry-standard test, they often reformulate to reduce cost and performance to where it barely passes the test. When we pass a test (or a double-length test), we continue to search for ways to increase protection even more because, for our customers, “good enough” doesn’t cut it. "

This thread reminds me of the old joke, "What do they call the person who graduates last in their medical class?"

"They call him/her Doctor."

Sadly enough, meeting the standard meets the standard. But it's still better than not meeting or not having a standard.

 

[OilUzer]

Good info about dino since I still use it in 2 of our 4 cars. The other 2 I am forced to use syn because of spec.

However , I still prefer the top of the class to perform surgery on me. Other doctors are ok for a regular visits. back to my original comment, for regular OCIs (regular Dr. visits) most likely any oil/doctor that meets the spec is ok.
For extreme conditions (extended oci/heat/rpm or Surgery) I prefer the top of the class! lol

 

[wpod]

The majors will be better at quality then the convenience store brand blenders

 

[zfasts03]

Neither did Mobil 1.

good to know! thanks!

 

[Snagglefoot]

I don't want to name names, but one of the boutique brands on their blog made this statement, which is a bold accusation. What are your thoughts on it?

"When a competitor’s oil easily passes an industry-standard test, they often reformulate to reduce cost and performance to where it barely passes the test. When we pass a test (or a double-length test), we continue to search for ways to increase protection even more because, for our customers, “good enough” doesn’t cut it. "

I would counter with “ When a competor barely passes an industry-standard test, they often add ten bucks to the price of their oil to give the impression to customers that it’s a much better product.” When we pass a test we continue to search for ways to keep our cost down while providing the protection proven by the test because charging extra for nothing doesn’t cut it.

 

[ecotourist]

Good info about dino since I still use it in 2 of our 4 cars. The other 2 I am forced to use syn because of spec.

However , I still prefer the top of the class to perform surgery on me. Other doctors are ok for a regular visits. back to my original comment, for regular OCIs (regular Dr. visits) most likely any oil/doctor that meets the spec is ok.
For extreme conditions (extended oci/heat/rpm or Surgery) I prefer the top of the class! lol

To complete the analogy, Physicians do try to practice within their circle of competence. If you were at the bottom of your class and you find a role that you can perform well, you'll be fine, and so will your patients. [And for the record, most medical school graduates, irrespective of where they placed in the class, will make pretty good doctors.]

The oil analogy is that where something special is needed and the manufacturer specifies it (eg BMW LL-01) and the owner complies with it, everything works out fine. The trouble starts when the owner says, "Nah I don't think I need that. Too expensive. I'm sure Old Bessie will be fine with XXX." Old Bessie might be fine with XXX, but then again maybe not. That would be like insisting a physician practice outside of their circle of competence. It might work out fine, but then again maybe not.

 

[OilUzer]

Dino's ever shrinking "circle of competence" is leading consumers to Synthetic oil. lol Is that true?

back to the topic, since UOAs don't provide a complete picture, how can consumers determine if an oil that exceeds a spec is "significantly" better than the one barely meeting the spec? Are there enough documented and meaningful lab or field test data?

 

[demarpaint]

I don't want to name names, but one of the boutique brands on their blog made this statement, which is a bold accusation. What are your thoughts on it?

"When a competitor’s oil easily passes an industry-standard test, they often reformulate to reduce cost and performance to where it barely passes the test. When we pass a test (or a double-length test), we continue to search for ways to increase protection even more because, for our customers, “good enough” doesn’t cut it. "

Typical advertising which many take as Gospel, and one of many reasons I don't use their products.

My opinion is that with most companies offering a tiered system, their top tier products likely far exceed the specifications while the mid and lower grades are likely to just "meet" the spec. Of course we have no way of actually knowing.

I agree, and I am more confident in that statement than I am in the seller's claim from the boutique oil company you didn't name earlier.

 

[Ed_Flecko]

I don't know if that's true or not, but I don't give a lot of credit to a comment by Joe Sixpack on an Amsoil blog.

Source: https://bit.ly/2OW5QlT

Ed

 

[buster]

It's a blog of their site.

 

[ka9mnx]

So you quoted (linked) an Amsoil ad?

 

[buster]

So you quoted (linked) an Amsoil ad?

It's not an Amsoil ad. It is off their website blog.

 

[Blagoje]

I don't want to name names, but one of the boutique brands on their blog made this statement, which is a bold accusation. What are your thoughts on it?

"When a competitor’s oil easily passes an industry-standard test, they often reformulate to reduce cost and performance to where it barely passes the test. When we pass a test (or a double-length test), we continue to search for ways to increase protection even more because, for our customers, “good enough” doesn’t cut it. "

My interpretation of the message that the boutique brand representative seeks to convey is that their oil is better BECAUSE it is more expensive. That is the perception that keeps them in business.

 

[blupupher]

Cheap tires meet the spec but they don't last as long and handling is not there and have more road noise, etc.
...

Not the same thing. There are ratings for tires as well, and the tire sold must meet that spec.
The treadwear, temperature, speed rating and traction ratings are different between tires.
I do not expect a tire with a 200 treadwear to last near as long as one with a rating of 500. I also don't expect a 200 treadwear tire to last as long as a 500.

 

[Quattro Pete]

I don't know if that's true or not, but I don't give a lot of credit to a comment by Joe Sixpack on an Amsoil blog.

Source: https://bit.ly/2OW5QlT

Ed

FWIW, according to his LinkedIn profile, he's been a Technical Writer at Amsoil for over 10 years.

 

[doublebase]

I don't know, if you take a high spec oil like some of the Euro specs does it really matter by how much of a margin it meets or exceeds it by?
Personally this is something I wouldn't worry about or entertain the thought about for too long. Its not like grease for example that has to stay in there possibly the life of the part or vehicle itself, the oil is getting changed often.
lets say for the sake of argument they do this and they possible may, if the oil can meet the spec and achieve the specified OCI, where is the issue?

I think you bring up a great point, oil is changed often. Over the life of our vehicles we probably change that oil 40 times using however many different brands/formulas/filters/driving conditions/different owners. Yet it doesn’t really effect much unless we’re talking about severe neglect or completely wrong oil weights over a long period of time (and even then many would claim “everything is just fine”.

Yet go over to the coolant side of this forum (or transmission fluid) and people are always trying to save $5-$10 bucks on a fluid that will be in the vehicle for 100,000 miles without changing. It’s kind of funny when you really think about it.