Wet Dual Clutch Transmission, long-term reliability (particularly Hyundai - Kia)

[duck__dodgers]

So I was looking at the new Santa Fe/Sorento and keep cars well past 150,000 miles.

The wet dual clutch transmission on those vehicles are relatively new, so no real information bad or good about reliability at >100,000 miles.

Anyone have good or bad anecdotes? (can't believe someone at HQ decided that adding a DCT to a car meant for Costco-school runs and trips to the Grand Canyon was a good idea)

And to share some info that I came across during my research:

1. From the manual, the severe service interval is only 56,000 miles, and the service sounds labor-intensive compared to the standard drain and fills. (and this is the fine print that will allow the regional office to deny grandma's DCT claim in year 9)
2. Normal service interval is "lifetime," only "inspect" every 32,000 miles


Here is a video of a failed new transmission with <100 miles on the odometer. Obviously likely rare, but doesn't inspire confidence for a transmission that has been around for a few years now. Retail price of a replacement: >$8,000



here's a video about how the DCT works...

 

[Jetronic]

Better a wet clutch transmission than a dry clutch imo... Not many made it past 50k miles on the original clutches (and often clutch actuator $$$$) in the tucson. Maybe they did better in the USA where longer distances are travelled

 

[nascarnation]

I think DCTs are doing pretty well in big trucks. The concept is pretty solid. It's really how well the specific design is executed and manufactured by Hyundai/Kia for this application. The old "devil is in the details". The Toyota 4 banger engine that runs 300,000 miles doesn't look all that much different than the H/K ones that are often failed before 100,000.

Ford / Getrag had widespread problems with their small car DCT version, at least the early years.

Given the Hyundai / Kia struggles with engine durability, I'd be reluctant to bet on one of these DCTs in the early years of production but if the vehicle is compelling for you, get an extended warranty that covers your expected useful life.

 

[KrisZ]

My FIL had a 2011 Jetta TDI with a wet clutch DCT and it was working fine at around 100k mile mark when it was bought out by VW.
Not sure if he did any maintenance on it though and how long it would’ve lasted if he didn’t get rid of it.

One thing I noticed when driving it, it would slip the clutches a lot in stop and go when the traffic slowly creeps along. I guess it’s fine for normal driving, but if you’re stuck in heavy stop and go traffic constantly, that would be something to consider, or adjust how you drive it to limit the clutch wear.

 

[JavierH19]

Such a nice looking car but i don't want anything to do with that dct. Someone with a dct elantra had the engine over rev from the dct being junk and it blew the engine up and they refused to warranty it even though it's impossible for a person to be able to over rev the engine. I've read stories of the dct failing and the warranty getting voided for x silly reason. There's a reason why the hyundai kia warranty is called the most voided warranty in america. I'd much rather this thing have a cvt. These dct's aren't like audi/porsche dct's that are fairly reliable.

 

[Jetronic]

Such a nice looking car but i don't want anything to do with that dct. Someone with a dct elantra had the engine over rev from the dct being junk and it blew the engine up and they refused to warranty it even though it's impossible for a person to be able to over rev the engine. I've read stories of the dct failing and the warranty getting voided for x silly reason. There's a reason why the hyundai kia warranty is called the most voided warranty in america. I'd much rather this thing have a cvt. These dct's aren't like audi/porsche dct's that are fairly reliable.

In the Elantra that would be the dry clutch dct I suspect? Like used in the tucson and I30 with 1.6l turbo engines

 

[zzyzzx]

Given the Hyundai / Kia struggles with engine durability, I'd be reluctant to bet on one of these DCTs in the early years of production but if the vehicle is compelling for you, get an extended warranty that covers your expected useful life.

Fixed:
Given the Hyundai / Kia struggles with engine durability, I'd be reluctant to bet on one of these DCTs.

 

[pbm]

Ford / Getrag had widespread problems with their small car DCT version, at least the early years.

The Getrag DCT in the 2012-2019 Focus and similar years of the Fiesta were a disaster that Ford stubbornly refused to fix (by putting a 6 speed A/T in them). The Focus was a very good car hampered by this garbage DCT. I own a 2014 Focus and purposely bought the 5 speed M/T because I knew the DCT sucked. Mine has been a great car. Ford hurt their reputation badly by sticking with this POS A/T. The VW DSG A/T, on the other hand, has been very reliable. Whether H/K's ends up like Fords or VWs is a roll of the dice.

 

[stormgol]

Volkswagen DCT very good.

 

[sloinker]

The clutches on the VW DCT's are an on/off proposition depending on brake and throttle. The only "slip" is whatever is inherent from the friction material, no gradual actuation like a typical old school clutch. I had a Passat and now have two Golf's with DCT's. I do my own maintenance and that interval is 40,000 miles, fairly easy. I prefer a torque converter style transmission but the DCT's are better than the alternative CVT's found in many vehicles IMO. I am thinking about buying a stripper model Nissan Versa with a 5 speed manual just for nostalgias sake.

 

[benjy]

newer is NOT always better as manufacturers are ALWAYS looking for more profits using cheaper + or unproven tech + YOU are the Beta tester $$$$

 

[dbias]

I’ve had several VW/Audi DSG transmissions and have never had any issues with them. Maintenance is every 40k and not all that involved. The six speeds I’ve had were easy to change the fluid and filter on. Take filter off (have to remove the battery as the filter is top mounted) go underneath and drain fluid, the drain and fill is done through the same hole. Measure fluid that came out and I always put this amount back in through the top through the filter assembly and called it done.

The seven speed is a little more involved in that the filter is built into the mechatronic assembly and not changed. I empty the pressure accumulator with obdeleven, drop the fluid by the drain port, pump new fluid back in through the fill port, switch through all the gears and monitor transmission fluid temperature with obdeleven. Once the temp is at 40C, if I remember correctly, turn the car off and pull plug on the fill port and wait till the fluid comes out to a dribble and put fill plug back in.

DCT have odd gears on one clutch pack and the even gears on the second. Programming predicts the next gear that is needed and spools it up so if a sudden change happens such as going from gas to brake and back to gas quickly it may cause a delay as the program didn’t anticipate this. But in most instances there is no quicker shifting transmission out there.

 

[sloinker]

I’ve had several VW/Audi DSG transmissions and have never had any issues with them. Maintenance is every 40k and not all that involved. The six speeds I’ve had were easy to change the fluid and filter on. Take filter off (have to remove the battery as the filter is top mounted) go underneath and drain fluid, the drain and fill is done through the same hole. Measure fluid that came out and I always put this amount back in through the top through the filter assembly and called it done.

The seven speed is a little more involved in that the filter is built into the mechatronic assembly and not changed. I empty the pressure accumulator with obdeleven, drop the fluid by the drain port, pump new fluid back in through the fill port, switch through all the gears and monitor transmission fluid temperature with obdeleven. Once the temp is at 40C, if I remember correctly, turn the car off and pull plug on the fill port and wait till the fluid comes out to a dribble and put fill plug back in.

DCT have odd gears on one clutch pack and the even gears on the second. Programming predicts the next gear that is needed and spools it up so if a sudden change happens such as going from gas to brake and back to gas quickly it may cause a delay as the program didn’t anticipate this. But in most instances there is no quicker shifting transmission out there.

I also do the top fill through filter method. Did the bottom fill method a couple times and said to myself, forget this nonsense! I just do the measure what is drained and refill the same amount plus an ounce or two for any amount that may be soaked into the filter media. All these cars had a bunch of fluid in the pans from the factory fill before pulling the inner standpipe, seems that VW just pumped in excess from the factory to be on the safe side.

 

[dbias]

I also do the top fill through filter method. Did the bottom fill method a couple times and said to myself, forget this nonsense! I just do the measure what is drained and refill the same amount plus an ounce or two for any amount that may be soaked into the filter media. All these cars had a bunch of fluid in the pans from the factory fill before pulling the inner standpipe, seems that VW just pumped in excess from the factory to be on the safe side.

Yeah I always noticed a bit more than the recommended amount for the six speed coming out lol. In fact the first couple times I changed the fluid in a six speed I double checked that the recommended amount was enough by seeing if any fluid made its way over the standpipe. Some did but not a lot, and certainly not by the extra that VW sent it out the door with so there must be a bit of leeway for fluid level in the six speed DSG.

 

[350Rocket]

One of my friends who I used to work with and is a licensed mechanic had an Audi q5 with his ex wife. He traded it when the "mechatronic" set a code again. He had personally replaced it a few years prior (he worked at the Audi dealership at that time). I don't know details on maintenance or anything (probably none) I just know he lived in town so probably mostly stop and go city driving and it would have had less than 100k miles when the trans messed up for the second time. He had also personally rebuilt the crappy 2.0 T engine at the dealership in his spare time because it blew up.

 

[shortyb]

I don't know who manufactures the DCTs for H/K, but can't imagine them to be much different overall from what is out there already, and would say they would be a good choice. Had a bunch of DSGs in my past/present VWs and would be the preferred transmission if given a choice. It's really just 2 manual transmissions in one housing with automated clutches for each. Very durable and reliable IF maintained properly. One thing to remember is in the wet clutch system like VAG, the fluid bathes all the internals, clutches AND the electronic solenoids (Mechatronic unit) along with their circuit boards/wiring, which is responsible for gear changes. What happens with lack of fluid maintenance in these is that the friction material from the clutches, which contains metallic components, gets all up in the electronic stuff and doesn't play nice if too much is present in the used fluid. Thats why it is so important to change said fluid on a regular basis (just like engine oil ). Had them slip or get jerky only a couple times in really bad stop/go traffic due to fluid getting hot, but it's very normal and accounted for with TCU programming. Once traffic thins out and fluid cools back down, all is normal again.

Fortunately, it's stuff-simple on the VAG cars to do fluid changes, and I've done it many times. Just a glorified oil change in reality. Yes, you have to remove some components to get to the filter on 6-speeds (all I've had BTW), but I do the drain, measure, fill through top filter hole method and only extra time it takes is getting the thick fluid into that tiny hole up top. Usually a 2 or 3 beer time frame. Run the car for a few hundred miles and then do a fluid level check at proper temp with OBD11 or VCDS. Easy Peasy. Never had any issues.

 

[Propflux01]

I have a DCT on the Wife's KONA. So far no issues. I don't know what the hit is on Hyun/Kia dry DCTs, but I do know VW had a bunch of issues with theirs over the years past. Haven't heard much going wrong with the Hyun/Kia Wet DCT's, either.

 

[edyvw]

Well past 150,000 on Hyundai/KIA with DCT transmission that only Porsche and ZF managed to make it reliable in bigger SUV applications, is IMO “bit” of an gamble.
And Hyundai/KIA won’t have ZF.

 

[CarDoc66]

The Germans know how to make a DCT. I always enjoyed driving a VW or an Audi with one and they seemed to hold up well too.
I’d recommend not being the beta tester for that Hyundai trans. It could turn out stellar but the track record with Theta and PU engines has me skeptical.

 

[edyvw]

I have a DCT on the Wife's KONA. So far no issues. I don't know what the hit is on Hyun/Kia dry DCTs, but I do know VW had a bunch of issues with theirs over the years past. Haven't heard much going wrong with the Hyun/Kia Wet DCT's, either.

What kind? Becuae I had it, I know people who had it, so interested to know what issues precisely, except not maintaining it and then developing issues.