Weight Lifting and supplements.

[andrewg]

I used to workout very often. Got into creatine (awful experience) and protein supplements (whey/egg).

Now...over 50...I wish I'd never done much of the lifting I did. I should have focused more on moderation in my routines...not trying to be Mr. Muscle.

I've got many muscle/soft tissue, cartilage issues now for pretending when I was younger to be Arnold Schwarzenegger.

Too many injuries can occur when one tries to lift or pursue weight goals that are excessive. That's what I did, and I now pay for it.

As I got older I came to realize that being fit is more important than being muscular. Eating healthy foods, in balance, is better than worrying if my muscles are getting enough protein. And taking supplements that may be harmful (not enough documentation to prove to me that they are harmless or even healthy) has been stopped.

Moderation in exercise, eating small, frequent healthy foods, and a low total caloric intake has given me what I was looking for. As a result, I am often told that I look like I am far younger than my age. And all of my medical tests also reflect this (other than injuries I obtained in my youth from being an idiot).

 

[Wolf359]

I think if you ask a doctor or a nutritionist they would tell you to just eat real food. The regular American diet has too much protein as it is.

The whole supplement industry just goes to show you that with good marketing, people will buy anything. Just because it's sold, doesn't mean it works or is needed.

 

[surfstar]

Two sides, same marketing; diet pills/etc and workout supplements/etc -- you're too fat, take this; you're too skinny, take this!

If you're single and you're looking to get laid, sure, have fun - you'll attract the exact type of mate you're looking for.
But lifting as a way of life? I used to always ask my good friend when he got super into it, "and then what?". Once you get "jacked", then what? You plan to continue that crazy regimen the rest of your life? Otherwise you'll get soft and have flappy man boobs. Or are you training all week long so you can go around lifting heavy things for people on the weekends? "Here, let me get that for you."
I just never saw the point. I'd prefer to get my exercise by doing fun things, that burn calories and take you to pretty awesome places - i.e. compare running on a treadmill to hiking or trail running outdoors.

I digress
anyways, have fun with your first pumping brahs; I will humbly defer to you when I need something heavy lifted (and yes, I have gone to gyms in the past; last trip a few years ago I was blown away by the fake, roided out people - both genders)

 

[andrewg]

Originally Posted By: surfstar
Two sides, same marketing; diet pills/etc and workout supplements/etc -- you're too fat, take this; you're too skinny, take this!

If you're single and you're looking to get laid, sure, have fun - you'll attract the exact type of mate you're looking for.
But lifting as a way of life? I used to always ask my good friend when he got super into it, "and then what?". Once you get "jacked", then what? You plan to continue that crazy regimen the rest of your life? Otherwise you'll get soft and have flappy man boobs. Or are you training all week long so you can go around lifting heavy things for people on the weekends? "Here, let me get that for you."
I just never saw the point. I'd prefer to get my exercise by doing fun things, that burn calories and take you to pretty awesome places - i.e. compare running on a treadmill to hiking or trail running outdoors.

I digress
anyways, have fun with your first pumping brahs; I will humbly defer to you when I need something heavy lifted (and yes, I have gone to gyms in the past; last trip a few years ago I was blown away by the fake, roided out people - both genders)


Exactly. Good post.

Nothing makes me laugh more than a person trying to show-off like a high school kid that just discovered he's got biceps....tight t-shirts...."posing" while walking with the lats spread. Ridiculous and yes...F-A-K-E people.

Of course...it's just as bad when over 40 people do nothing about a bulging waistline and think it's normal to be fat.

 

[LoneRanger]

What surfstar is referring to can develop into a personality disorder which I'm not sure if its in the DSM IV but its recent and its called Body Dysmorphic Disorder. I think that is it, anyhow. It is sort of the opposite of Anorexia Nervosa. BDD is mainly males who have lifted towards the body building goal and are too hooked on the look. They look at themselves and even though they're swole and big they're never big enough in their eyes and its like the Anorexic female who looks too skinny and unhealthy but she still sees herself as overweight.

I have to admit that for me, a large part of it is the endorphins. I believe my brain is actually addicted mildly to them the same way distance runners can be. I can miss a couple days or so of work out but if I lay off longer say for a week (which you need to do periodically), I start getting edgy and a little irritable, and the body starts feeling.... slack. Slack is the term that comes to mind. I can walk into the gym occasionally feeling uptight or even anxious about something but afterwards all is right with the world again.

 

[deven]

Originally Posted By: surfstar
Two sides, same marketing; diet pills/etc and workout supplements/etc -- you're too fat, take this; you're too skinny, take this!

If you're single and you're looking to get laid, sure, have fun - you'll attract the exact type of mate you're looking for.
But lifting as a way of life? I used to always ask my good friend when he got super into it, "and then what?". Once you get "jacked", then what? You plan to continue that crazy regimen the rest of your life? Otherwise you'll get soft and have flappy man boobs. Or are you training all week long so you can go around lifting heavy things for people on the weekends? "Here, let me get that for you."
I just never saw the point. I'd prefer to get my exercise by doing fun things, that burn calories and take you to pretty awesome places - i.e. compare running on a treadmill to hiking or trail running outdoors.

I digress
anyways, have fun with your first pumping brahs; I will humbly defer to you when I need something heavy lifted (and yes, I have gone to gyms in the past; last trip a few years ago I was blown away by the fake, roided out people - both genders)

I understand your point. I do it to control my MS. I have lost a ton of strength due to it. I do it for the sake of delaying motor and musculoskeletal impairment.

 

[andrewg]

Originally Posted By: LoneRanger
What surfstar is referring to can develop into a personality disorder which I'm not sure if its in the DSM IV but its recent and its called Body Dysmorphic Disorder. I think that is it, anyhow. It is sort of the opposite of Anorexia Nervosa. BDD is mainly males who have lifted towards the body building goal and are too hooked on the look. They look at themselves and even though they're swole and big they're never big enough in their eyes and its like the Anorexic female who looks too skinny and unhealthy but she still sees herself as overweight.

I have to admit that for me, a large part of it is the endorphins. I believe my brain is actually addicted mildly to them the same way distance runners can be. I can miss a couple days or so of work out but if I lay off longer say for a week (which you need to do periodically), I start getting edgy and a little irritable, and the body starts feeling.... slack. Slack is the term that comes to mind. I can walk into the gym occasionally feeling uptight or even anxious about something but afterwards all is right with the world again.


I used to feel that way when I weight trained. Very irritable and sluggish feeling until I got finished with a workout.

I'm glad I don't require that to feel good anymore.

Now I just do simple, lower intensity workouts with dumbbells and elevated pushups, etc. Low risk of injury...yet still stay in good enough shape.

Funny thing about how I look at bodybuilders now. They all look blocky and goofy to me.

Kinda like a bloated big toe.

 

[Clevy]

Originally Posted By: andrewg
Originally Posted By: LoneRanger
What surfstar is referring to can develop into a personality disorder which I'm not sure if its in the DSM IV but its recent and its called Body Dysmorphic Disorder. I think that is it, anyhow. It is sort of the opposite of Anorexia Nervosa. BDD is mainly males who have lifted towards the body building goal and are too hooked on the look. They look at themselves and even though they're swole and big they're never big enough in their eyes and its like the Anorexic female who looks too skinny and unhealthy but she still sees herself as overweight.

I have to admit that for me, a large part of it is the endorphins. I believe my brain is actually addicted mildly to them the same way distance runners can be. I can miss a couple days or so of work out but if I lay off longer say for a week (which you need to do periodically), I start getting edgy and a little irritable, and the body starts feeling.... slack. Slack is the term that comes to mind. I can walk into the gym occasionally feeling uptight or even anxious about something but afterwards all is right with the world again.


I used to feel that way when I weight trained. Very irritable and sluggish feeling until I got finished with a workout.

I'm glad I don't require that to feel good anymore.

Now I just do simple, lower intensity workouts with dumbbells and elevated pushups, etc. Low risk of injury...yet still stay in good enough shape.

Funny thing about how I look at bodybuilders now. They all look blocky and goofy to me.

Kinda like a bloated big toe.



Before I hurt my back I was in the gym daily. 20" arms,6 pack abs and those side muscles that drive girls nuts.
If I wasn't in the gym everyday I couldn't sleep. I needed that rush,that pump.
Once I hurt myself and the gym was impossible it was months before I could sleep more than an hour at a time. Even with 90mgs of hydromorph sleep was impossible.
So I understand the feeling. I was 6'1",230 and lean.
Now I'm still 230 and soft.

 

[Michael_P]

I have always gotten a kick out of the claims many of these supplement companies make. Like:

*24.7% more lean muscle gain
*Hyper-metabolizes
*Melts fat away
*15.7% more oxygen to your muscles


.........and so forth. Reminds me of oil additive claims.

 

[silvercivicsi]

I've been lifting and competing in various sports/martial arts for over a decade now (I know, not nearly as long as some of you!) and I've always been of the mindset that clean eating and hard training is the way to go. There's no substitute for waking up early and pushing your body hard.

That being said the only supplement I take is a protein shake every once in a while if time is tight and I can't have a full meal or dinner rolls around and I haven't met protein requirements for the day.

 

[andrewg]

Originally Posted By: silvercivicsi
I've been lifting and competing in various sports/martial arts for over a decade now (I know, not nearly as long as some of you!) and I've always been of the mindset that clean eating and hard training is the way to go. There's no substitute for waking up early and pushing your body hard.

That being said the only supplement I take is a protein shake every once in a while if time is tight and I can't have a full meal or dinner rolls around and I haven't met protein requirements for the day.


As you get older, the idea of "pushing your body hard" may need to be taken down a notch or two. If you don't, and continue to expect your body to be as capable as the years roll on....you'll likely end up causing an injury. Some injuries NEVER go 100% away. And trust me...that SUCKS big time!

The back, shoulders, and even something simple like the forearms...once one of those areas get's messed up, the working out starts to lose it's attraction.

Just be careful and remember that you only have one body to inhabit. And regardless of our advanced medicine in this country, preventing an injury is FAR better than treating one.

 

[silvercivicsi]

Originally Posted By: andrewg
Originally Posted By: silvercivicsi
I've been lifting and competing in various sports/martial arts for over a decade now (I know, not nearly as long as some of you!) and I've always been of the mindset that clean eating and hard training is the way to go. There's no substitute for waking up early and pushing your body hard.

That being said the only supplement I take is a protein shake every once in a while if time is tight and I can't have a full meal or dinner rolls around and I haven't met protein requirements for the day.


As you get older, the idea of "pushing your body hard" may need to be taken down a notch or two. If you don't, and continue to expect your body to be as capable as the years roll on....you'll likely end up causing an injury. Some injuries NEVER go 100% away. And trust me...that SUCKS big time!

The back, shoulders, and even something simple like the forearms...once one of those areas get's messed up, the working out starts to lose it's attraction.

Just be careful and remember that you only have one body to inhabit. And regardless of our advanced medicine in this country, preventing an injury is FAR better than treating one.


Of course! By "push hard" I mean relative to your abilities. No need to go to failure or run until you puke, but do work up a good sweat and get the heart pumping a little.

 

[LoneRanger]

Originally Posted By: andrewg

Just be careful and remember that you only have one body to inhabit. And regardless of our advanced medicine in this country, preventing an injury is FAR better than treating one.


We have assembly line medicine here. I have had some encounters with it recently and it was like being part of a herd. On topic because the first injury has effected work outs-- separated the AC joint in right shoulder on Oct 25th by a bone head move on my Ducati. Bike emerged w/ only a scratch to the faring because my shoulder broke the fall, ha. In hindsight, there was zero benefit seeking treatment other than the knowledge of the diagnosis. Went something like this "Its a grade 2 separation of the AC joint, there is no treatment done on these beyond arm sling as necessary for comfort and ease back into activities, avoid lifting above 25lbs until cleared by Ortho MD.... That'll be two thousand dollars please (Hospital ER visit)... thank you and come again." Ortho MD 2 weeks later, "Ditto what he said, that'll be two hundred dollars please, thank you and come again." No physical therapy scheduled, did it on my own in gym. It's back to about 80% now, all me. Two weeks ago, a.m. at work, seeing sparkeling light flashes and shadowy floaters right eye, off to the Opthalmologist to get checked out. "Posterior Vitreous Detachment, fairly common with middle age, no treatment is done on this, that'll be two hundred fifty dollars please, thank you and come again." Each time got about 5 minute visit by the actual MD then he was off to the next room to milk another cow.

 

[supton]

I dunno, last I knew it was a decade plus to become specialized (meaning you can tell the mundane from the serious from the exotic problems), then you need to have a staff of like two nurses and probably just as many secretaries per doc, and finally a clean office waiting area and then some uber clean examination rooms. Times two to three doctors, of which someone has to always be on call 24hr a day. Not cheap. And like other things in life, they probably make their money off the easy stuff like your problem, and only break even on more complicated stuff.

[Secretery or admin assistant, whatever, someone to answer phones, schedule appointments, and to argue with insurance companies.]

 

[andrewg]

^^^^ Yes...all that overhead and they still make you wait at least 15 minutes past your appointment (because they always over-book), fill out a form on a clipboard (every time you visit), and be stuck looking a women mags in the waiting area.

Then, when you finally get called back, the medical assistant asks you what the issue is (are you my doctor?). They often spend about ten to fifteen more minutes asking mundane questions (still, no doctor).

They leave. Then, another ten minutes or more go by and the doctor FINALLY shows up and asks you most of the same questions the medical assistant asked.
The quick exam is next....then opens up some drug filled mystery drawer and says..."You should try these for the pain. I'll write a prescription and leave it up front. Stay off it for a while...try ice and heat. Come see me again in two weeks."

Off he goes...to the next room. Total time spent for my appointment....45 minutes to an hour. Doctor was fifteen minutes late. Spent less time with me than the assistant.

Anyway....better to take good care of yourself and avoid doctor visits.

 

[Cujet]

I have my share of physical issues. I work out with weights/machines/some cardio nearly every day, unless sick or injured. It keeps my strength at normal levels and my metabolism functional.

I run out of energy very rapidly now. Many days I can't continue on to a 3rd set. Some days I only get on set in.

The one thing I have found that actually helps is Perpetuem, by Hammer nutrition. It's a product for long distance bicyclists and is designed to provide long term energy. It contains Sodium Phosphate, L-Carnosine and L-Carnitine. I use 2 scoops in a 20 ounce water bottle. It contains maltodextrin for energy, which is a high glycemic index product, but it is unlikely to cause gastric distress or bloating, like other sugars. Maltodextrin contains less than 20% sugars.

Also contains about 10% soy protein and some fat from soybean lecithin.

Since I have so many physical issues to to overactive autoimmune issues, I've given up on worrying about being fully "organic" and "good for you" if it does not work. I eat very, very carefully for my needs and I do what works. (for example, I do well with slim-jims, but not well with wheat toast/butter)

I've found that for moderate intensity exercise, including an hour at the gym, Perpetuem works very well.

 

[joaks]

The taurine in Red Bull does not come from bulls, or any other animal. Must be a urban myth.

I think getting enough protein is important first, but as mentioned a lot of americans get excess anyway. Since you cannot store protein, getting some every 3-4hrs while you are awake can help maintain muscle mass.

Creatine helps some people, but the regular monohydrate should be fine.

There are plenty of other supplements which can help, but the dose you need makes them cost prohibitive. Pyruvate is one example. CLA is another.

I have not taken any of the NO supplements, but I would be shocked if they actually helped. First, the usually just contain amino acids and second they are just going to increase blood flow. Actually, third, viagra would (theoretically) work much better but that hasn't caught on in the bodybuilding world.

 

[andrewg]

I don't don't know about others....but it astounds me that some guys will take whatever "supplements" they think will contribute to having lean muscle mass.

Not much regard seems to be taken here for the actual effects on your body as far as being healthy or not.

Oh well....many Americans seem to care more about appearance and fluff than real health and longevity.

Just my opinion.

 

[hotwheels]

Originally Posted By: joaks
The taurine in Red Bull does not come from bulls, or any other animal. Must be a urban myth.


It's an urban myth I merrily spread. I only posted about taurine because this type thread is usually full of bull anyway, and because I thought there was entertainment value in the alleged taurine source. At least at the gym I frequently succeed in teasing fellow members when I tell them what secret sauce is in their energy drink.

hotwheels

 

[hotwheels]

Originally Posted By: andrewg
I don't don't know about others....but it astounds me that some guys will take whatever "supplements" they think will contribute to having lean muscle mass.

Not much regard seems to be taken here for the actual effects on your body as far as being healthy or not.

Oh well....many Americans seem to care more about appearance and fluff than real health and longevity.

Just my opinion.


It's wishful thinking that's to blame. The supplements industry promises gains that otherwise would have to be achieved through sacrifice and pain. It doesn't help when celebrities, mostly athletes and actors, achieve seemingly through the use and abuse of supplements of all kinds an incredible physique or personal goals that seem otherwise out of reach. People look at 68-year old Sylvester Stallone and attribute his external physical condition to the liberal use of human growth hormone, but they fail to consider that he follows an excruciating workout regimen 5 hours a day, 6 days a week. How would Sly look if he went to the gym, loaded to the gills with HGH and all sorts of supplements, just for an hour once a week?

Supplements may and do help achieve gains, but they are not a panacea in itself. For a healthy human being, in good physical condition, adequate nutrition for the imposed workload provides all the body needs to become stronger. Besides for the usual Chem 8 test, ask your doctor to have checked:
electrolytes, magnesium, phosphorus, Vitamin D and Vitamin B levels.If you have any deficiencies or are near the bottom of the normal range, use the respective supplement. I myself take magnesium, zinc, a Vitamin complex and Vitamin D every day. I also take alpha liponic acid and uridine monophosphate for specific issues. Everything I take is based on my own research and has been talked over my with my primary care physician and my endocrinologist.

hotwheels