Webasto no longer manufactures aftermarket sunroofs
- Thread starter slacktide_bitog
- Start date
- Status
That's what AC is for. Usually they don't leak unless the drains are clogged. Then that's a maintenance issue, not a failure of the moonroof/panorama sunroof. And if the glass isn't tempered right, then yeah, maybe it will explode. But that's a manufacturering defect, same as engines and transmissions that can fall apart at any time. At least with glass, it's covered under your insurance.
I only ever had noise issues. Most suffered from slight wind noise, which I was able to live with, the current one is suffering from an annoying clunking noise, that is hard to stand. Perhaps a typical Mini issue, but I feel it's also typical for panoramic sunroofs in general. Probably the combination of German cost-cutting developement and British workmanship doesn't make things better.
Sunroofs are nice when they work, a pain when they break.
I had a car with a simple sliding roof, and it was fine. Simple L-shaped crush seal around the panel, where the drains only serve as failsafes.
Slide/tilt upped the complexity factor, and I-shaped felt-faced seals were needed to allow the panel to move in more than one axis.. Plastic parts subject to repeated heat-cycles (ever feel how hot the roof of a car can get?) get brittle and break.
On a sporty car, adding a 40 lb cassette at the highest point on the vehicle isn't optimal.
Many do enjoy the feature, which is fine, but the real issue is when it is a mandatory part of an upper-level trim package.
I had a car with a simple sliding roof, and it was fine. Simple L-shaped crush seal around the panel, where the drains only serve as failsafes.
Slide/tilt upped the complexity factor, and I-shaped felt-faced seals were needed to allow the panel to move in more than one axis.. Plastic parts subject to repeated heat-cycles (ever feel how hot the roof of a car can get?) get brittle and break.
On a sporty car, adding a 40 lb cassette at the highest point on the vehicle isn't optimal.
Many do enjoy the feature, which is fine, but the real issue is when it is a mandatory part of an upper-level trim package.
Last edited:
A bonded glass roof will have the same strength as a steel roof and there will not be as high a weight penalty.Sadly, there are quite a few fixed glass sunroofs out there, such as the C-Max, Outlander Sport, Mustang, Transit Connect, and some other cars
All things people hate about sunroofs, the fear of the hole in the roof, are still there with a fixed sunroof, all the disadvantages, but without the advantages of one that actually opens
I honestly didn't know about the Webasto heaters being so popular, or anything about them at all
The ONLY thing I enjoy about a sunroof is in the name - it's a roof that lets the sun in. Lightens up the cabin and makes it feel less cramped. A simple manual sliding or motorized shade is all you'd need. What I don't need is the heavy sunroof frame or 1"+ of reduced headroom.
I look at the the other way - a bonded glass roof has all the advantages of an opening sunroof with none of the downsides.
I had a sunroof on a car once. I loved it because I could leave it cracked open on hot days and the heat wouldn't build up in the car so much because it could escape out. If it was hot and sunny enough, I could see the heat escaping.
On aftermarket sunroofs they tended to have install issues and leakage.
On aftermarket sunroofs they tended to have install issues and leakage.
I had a sunroof once, only used it in springtime, when it was a novelty to open the windows again. Vast majority of time it was closed and the slide thing in place (so as to block sunlight). Came with the car, it's not like I optioned out the car. It also would randomly leak, drains were fine, but once in a while the dome light would be full of water. ?
I don't drive with the windows open often--springtime when going slow, like 40mph, but anything faster and the wind noise is annoying. Usually drive with the radio off, so a quiet car is preferred.
I don't drive with the windows open often--springtime when going slow, like 40mph, but anything faster and the wind noise is annoying. Usually drive with the radio off, so a quiet car is preferred.
The Webasto units are very small, use very little fuel and have low CO2 emissions. they are a very common option in gas as well as diesel cars and trucks. When you figure the emissions of warming the vehicle up either by idle or driving the cold engine (more than 30 sec in Germany is illegal) the emissions are significantly higher.
Once the heater has done its job about 10-15 min the engine and cabin is up to operating temp and produces lower emissions.
Other benefits are significantly lower engine wear, longer oil life, easier starting, fewer head gasket issues due to the parts being at temp without the additional stress of combustion pressures.
Being exhausted pre cat the help light the cat off sooner and O2 sensors operate sooner bringing the engine into closed loop very quickly.
The only surprise to me is they are not more popular in the cold regions of the USA especially with class 8 trucks, they are a win all the way around.
I had one of their aftermarket sunroofs in my 2002 Tundra Access Cab and really liked it. I never had any issues with leaks.
all the busses I drive have them. 30 or 35 kW coolant heaters
Actually, Espar and Webasto made ( and as far as I know still make ) both a air heating system, and a hydronic system. They are two completely different designs.
The Hydronic plums into the engine coolant system, and also into the vehicles cabin air fan. (Like the air system, it has its own battery powered solenoid type pump ), burns fuel ( usually fed by a tap into the vehicles fuel system, be it gasoline or diesel ( but each is a specific design ), but can have its own tank ) and uses its own electric combustion air pump, and electric pump to circulate coolant that it heated, to the vehicles heater core, runs the vehicles cabin fans to heat the cabin, and preheats the engine with the heated coolant before it is started.
The air system has one motor, and on one side of it is a turbine like fan that pulls in combustion air and sends it to the combustion chamber, and on the other side of that same motor is another turbine like fan that pulls in cabin air and sends it to a heat-exchanger that provides isolation of combustion exhaust from the cabin air, and heats the cabin air before it is returned to the cabin.
Theses systems are microprocessor controlled, and have a cabin thermostat that can be set to the desired temperature, and safety sensors, glow resistor that is pre-warmed to provide ignition, cindered metal housing of combustion area that maintains hot temperature to continue combustion so the big power drain of glow resistor is only needed for a short time on start-up, and also during shut-down to insure complete burn-off of all fuel in combustion area during shut-down, safety sensors of temperatures in different areas of the system, sensor of motor. It is actually an extremely well thought out automatic system that varies the combustion rate, and motor speed according to the demand, and senses if an ignition attempt failed, and retries for a few times, will safely shut-down if there is a problem, and lock out, and even sends codes about what fault occurred.
The combustion screen has to be replaced about once a year ( depending on amount of use ) and the resistive glow screen has to be replaced after several years. There is a fuel filter for the solenoid type fuel pump. And the time the system turn's on can be preprogramed up to a week in advance. And it can be turned on remotely.
What is did not like about the small gasoline fueled Espar air heating system I had, is that the motor that moved the combustion and cabin air was a brush motor and has a very limited life expectancy. They should either redesign that motor to have a much longer life, or use a brushless motor that has a long life. When it goes bad you have to replace the majority of the unit. And that ain't cheap.
After 911, I had to buy the small stainless steel muffler they made for the exhaust and add that on to quiet the turbine like noise it made when running to preheat in winter to melt ice, or just running during winter evenings when I was in a restaurant and had my acoustic guitars in the car and did not want them to be exposed to freezing temperatures, because I was concerned the turbine like noise from an unattended car may startle someone.
The Hydronic plums into the engine coolant system, and also into the vehicles cabin air fan. (Like the air system, it has its own battery powered solenoid type pump ), burns fuel ( usually fed by a tap into the vehicles fuel system, be it gasoline or diesel ( but each is a specific design ), but can have its own tank ) and uses its own electric combustion air pump, and electric pump to circulate coolant that it heated, to the vehicles heater core, runs the vehicles cabin fans to heat the cabin, and preheats the engine with the heated coolant before it is started.
The air system has one motor, and on one side of it is a turbine like fan that pulls in combustion air and sends it to the combustion chamber, and on the other side of that same motor is another turbine like fan that pulls in cabin air and sends it to a heat-exchanger that provides isolation of combustion exhaust from the cabin air, and heats the cabin air before it is returned to the cabin.
Theses systems are microprocessor controlled, and have a cabin thermostat that can be set to the desired temperature, and safety sensors, glow resistor that is pre-warmed to provide ignition, cindered metal housing of combustion area that maintains hot temperature to continue combustion so the big power drain of glow resistor is only needed for a short time on start-up, and also during shut-down to insure complete burn-off of all fuel in combustion area during shut-down, safety sensors of temperatures in different areas of the system, sensor of motor. It is actually an extremely well thought out automatic system that varies the combustion rate, and motor speed according to the demand, and senses if an ignition attempt failed, and retries for a few times, will safely shut-down if there is a problem, and lock out, and even sends codes about what fault occurred.
The combustion screen has to be replaced about once a year ( depending on amount of use ) and the resistive glow screen has to be replaced after several years. There is a fuel filter for the solenoid type fuel pump. And the time the system turn's on can be preprogramed up to a week in advance. And it can be turned on remotely.
What is did not like about the small gasoline fueled Espar air heating system I had, is that the motor that moved the combustion and cabin air was a brush motor and has a very limited life expectancy. They should either redesign that motor to have a much longer life, or use a brushless motor that has a long life. When it goes bad you have to replace the majority of the unit. And that ain't cheap.
After 911, I had to buy the small stainless steel muffler they made for the exhaust and add that on to quiet the turbine like noise it made when running to preheat in winter to melt ice, or just running during winter evenings when I was in a restaurant and had my acoustic guitars in the car and did not want them to be exposed to freezing temperatures, because I was concerned the turbine like noise from an unattended car may startle someone.
Last edited:
And some American too. My parents had an old Nissan Quest(Ford built version), sunroof was a Webasto made in Mexico with Carlite glass. It wasn’t some aftermarket piece
IIRC, Aisin sunroofs on Toyota/Lexus are based off Webasto designs. Dunno who makes them for Honda, Nissan and Subaru.
the biggest thing with sunroofs is to keep the drains clear. On older Mercedes with cable-operated Webasto sunroofs with the motor in the trunk, it was vital to keep the tracks lubed or risk breaking the pot metal lifter/sliders on the roof panel’s bridge assembly. There is a esoteric Gleitpaste made just for lubing the sunroof parts a Mercedes dealer is happy to sell a 500g jar for $50-60. It’s a special Kluber grease, white in color.
Last edited:
The price has gone up, lists for $94 but maybe you can get it for around $70 online. They lube the sunroof every year as part of Service A or Service B.
https://parts.mercedesbenzofwappingersfalls.com/oem-parts/mercedes-benz-paste-0019894651
You can get a smaller 14 gram jar of it for around $10. or get it on eBay with free shipping for $12.49. Guess a few people got the big container and broke it down. I've gotten the 14 gram jar and a little goes a long way.
https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-mercedes-benz-parts/sunroof-lubricant-half-ounce/0019894651~a/
https://www.ebay.com/itm/233714057325?epid=14022160914&hash=item366a71806d:g:om4AAOSw3j1gJpV0
I'm on my second car with a sunroof, and it's as important to me as the Premium sound. Never had a leak, I can close it when I don't want it open, etc. My Camry definitely gives up some headroom, but my Rouge did not. Is the Camry uncomfortable because of it? Only when I am too close to a stop light and need to lean forward to see around the dropped ceiling.
I also prefer to drive my Jeep with no doors or top, so that is part of my desire for a sunroof in my daily driver as well.
Feels great on a 70 degree day with the window down, the sunroof open, and tunes thumping on the premium sound system.
I also prefer to drive my Jeep with no doors or top, so that is part of my desire for a sunroof in my daily driver as well.
Feels great on a 70 degree day with the window down, the sunroof open, and tunes thumping on the premium sound system.
ASC only installed sunroofs on vehicles that did not offer a sunroof as an option. Pretty much all Asian vehicles provide that option.
ASC used to do all of the Asian vehicles as an option if needed. ASC had 3 install facilities that I have been in around the Southern CA area. Toyota never made a convertible Celica! ASC did convert them all in So. CA. Same with the Nissan 300zx and probably a few others.
It was surprising to me when another member stated ASC closed down. I have been retired for 14 years as some friends in the business have told me pretty much all of the Asian National Headquarters have moved out of state from the So. Ca area to other states.
Last edited:
I think ASC worked with Ford or Chrysler on developing the convertible Mustang and Sebring as well.
I think they may have done the convertible Camaro also, but I don't really know, I worked mainly on Asian vehicles. They were no fly by night company. Surprising they closed down.
Some sketchy shops were in the aftermarket sunroof business. You don't want just anybody cutting a hunk out of your car roof. That and (as mentioned) the liability probably encouraged Webasto to leave that market.
The same issues with shops and shoddy work affected the custom-van market in the 1970s–1980s. Remember how people would get aftermarket windows?
The same issues with shops and shoddy work affected the custom-van market in the 1970s–1980s. Remember how people would get aftermarket windows?
On PriusChat, a few people have said some installers have cut into one of structural members for the roof during the installation of an aftermarket sunroof. I know during my time at the local Honda dealer, we would send the lowliest models of the Civic and Fit to a local shop for an aftermarket sunroof and radio and sell it for close to what a fully-optioned EX-L(Civic) or Fit Sport costs.
these days, on Webasto’s end the aftermarket is a small piece of the pie for revenue and OEM supply is more profitable.
the funny part about those custom van Windows is that they’re made by the same suppliers for bus/RV windows(Atwood Excel or Arow Global) or structural glass(CR Lawrence).
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked