Five Euro Car Myths?

[supton]

Euro cars peaked in the 80s and 90s. Stuff was made of METAL and made well. Slowly plastic made its way into cooling systems, induction systems, and a zillion timing chains running all kinds of balance shafts...oh an how many ball joints can we fit into a suspension? I know! 8 in the front, and another 4 in the back! So that's 12 in one vehicle!!! Yes!!

My 80s VWs had 2 ball joints, 1 timing belt, 0 rocker arms, 0 timing chains, heavy stamped steel oil pans, handled great and got a minimum of 35 mpg on cheap (87) gas. What more could you ask?

My VW MkIV, despite all the complaints about it, was a good car to me. I read of some of the issues it had, but all in all, either I dodged them or as some on point out, internet amplification.

Will say, I'm bummed about VW's 1.5T. I've been looking for how to inspect their oiled timing belt (sounds oh so wrong) but not finding. Good for 120k (or 150k?) then inspect every 20k? now that seems pretty dodgy, unless if it's an easy inspection. [Going to guess, it's not an easy replacement.]

 

[Fabulous50s]

@supton

Ford has done the wet timing belt and ut hasnt worked out that well. Honda outdoor power equipment has tye wet belt....buuuut that isn't a vehicle with nowhere near the hours put on it.

Every timing belt failure from oil leaking on it just makes me more leery of the idea.

 

[Allaneddie]

My reason for leaving Euro ownership was finding quality mechanics. Granted that applies to all OEM's.

A local independent specializes in VW and Audi. My GTI has never seen the inside of a dealership since the day in 2017 I drove it off the lot. But then, all I've needed is oil change and transmission service (DSG transmission).

 

[supton]

A local independent specializes in VW and Audi. My GTI has never seen the inside of a dealership since the day in 2017 I drove it off the lot. But then, all I've needed is oil change and transmission service (DSG transmission).

I had a tough time letting local shops touch my diesel, what with all sorts of horror stories about mark and pray on timing belt jobs. I needed a TB every 3 years, so it was a major deal for me (100k belt, later downgraded to 80k). Thankfully when the turbo did pop I had a local guy able to do that (and the clutch); he was only 45 minutes from me, sure beat the 2+ hour drive I was doing before. [Supposedly there was a good shop closer but I wanted "the best" and was willing to drive.]

 

[dumkid]

I had a tough time letting local shops touch my diesel, what with all sorts of horror stories about mark and pray on timing belt jobs. I needed a TB every 3 years, so it was a major deal for me (100k belt, later downgraded to 80k). Thankfully when the turbo did pop I had a local guy able to do that (and the clutch); he was only 45 minutes from me, sure beat the 2+ hour drive I was doing before. [Supposedly there was a good shop closer but I wanted "the best" and was willing to drive.]

Those timing belts are a pain. You have to follow the book exactly or the special alignment tools won't fit. I spent 3 hours trying to get one set right my first time. I can see why the mark and pray method would be used

 

[Fabulous50s]

Those timing belts are a pain. You have to follow the book exactly or the special alignment tools won't fit. I spent 3 hours trying to get one set right my first time. I can see why the mark and pray method would be used

Once again dumb engineering. At the shop where I used to work, I was the head gasket, timing belt, A/C, and electrical guy.

I put on lots of timing belts. Most were easy with obvious timing marks and no special tools. I have the early TDI tools, but it just got worse and worse.

The old IDI VW diesels were timed just lime their gasoline counterparts other than lining up a mark in a window on the pump.

Japanese stuff with belts, was always tye easiest. It was like they actually wanted you to change the belt.....

 

[supton]

I guess a lot of shops would reuse bolts, or otherwise not do it right. On an interference engine that meant pulling the head to fix valves when it failed.

No love doing the belt on my 5S-FE but it clearly was a lot less work than that TDI. No need to support the engine, although the timing marks could have been done a lot better. Crank/cam locks might have been nice, VW did have that going for it.

 

[Stumpy]

I have owned one European car. I will never own another one.

 

[wpod]

My Auntie and Uncle were Mercedes nuts and would always have a newer fancy Mercedes They were chump change to them and all I can say is they were really, really nice to drive I liked them but I am a pick up truck type.

 

[John105]

Owning BMW, GM, and a Lexus currently, formerly Nissan as well. It’s amazing how expensive Toyota parts are. Often 2x+ BMW for OE. GM is rather expensive too. BMW is transparent as far as OE, OEM, aftermarket.

For those who DIY, it can be argued euro cars are not expensive.

Instead of assuming or stereotyping, I like to own all kinds. My next new car will be GM if according to plan. Might even be low six figures.

 

[Greenbeforeblue]

If you couldn't afford a vehicle when it was new, you can't afford it when it's got miles on it and it starts to eat. Especially if it's from Europe.

 

[ripcord]

I don't think the OP has made his case. Consider the likelihood of a typical southern driven Honda or Toyota of making it to 300 or 400k miles if the factory service schedule is followed. Not an unreasonable thing to expect and it happens all the time. How much money in repairs would it take to make it that far? Usually fairly little.

Now juxtapose that with a typical Jaguar, Audi, Fiat or VW. I really don't have say anything more. The argument kinda makes itself.

 

[wavinwayne]

I don't think the OP has made his case. Consider the likelihood of a typical southern driven Honda or Toyota of making it to 300 or 400k miles if the factory service schedule is followed. Not an unreasonable thing to expect and it happens all the time. How much money in repairs would it take to make it that far? Usually fairly little.

Now juxtapose that with a typical Jaguar, Audi, Fiat or VW. I really don't have say anything more. The argument kinda makes itself.

Just one data point, but I drove my '00 VW GTI for 365k miles with minimal maintenance, and it was still on the original turbo and ran well when i gave it away in 2018.

 

[MCompact]

I don't think the OP has made his case. Consider the likelihood of a typical southern driven Honda or Toyota of making it to 300 or 400k miles if the factory service schedule is followed. Not an unreasonable thing to expect and it happens all the time. How much money in repairs would it take to make it that far? Usually fairly little.

Now juxtapose that with a typical Jaguar, Audi, Fiat or VW. I really don't have say anything more. The argument kinda makes itself.

If I was faced with the prospect of driving the same car for 300k or 400k miles I would cut to the chase, find the nearest 20-30 story building and take a swan dive off of the roof.

 

[ripcord]

If I was faced with the prospect of driving the same car for 300k or 400k miles I would cut to the chase, find the nearest 20-30 story building and take a swan dive off of the roof.

Wow, I guess some people value really different things.

 

[jeepman3071]

Owning BMW, GM, and a Lexus currently, formerly Nissan as well. It’s amazing how expensive Toyota parts are. Often 2x+ BMW for OE. GM is rather expensive too. BMW is transparent as far as OE, OEM, aftermarket.

For those who DIY, it can be argued euro cars are not expensive.

Instead of assuming or stereotyping, I like to own all kinds. My next new car will be GM if according to plan. Might even be low six figures.

I've noticed this as well. I wouldn't say BMW parts are not expensive, but everything is expensive these days. My car is older, but the enthusiast community and parts availability has really made owning it quite enjoyable. Just the software access alone is huge compared to other brands where everything is kept under wraps and you need to bring the vehicle to the dealer for everything.

I was able to get rid of the stupid TPMS system on my BMW, and code it back to using the ABS sensors for tire pressure warnings, like the older pre-2008 cars. My dad's 2013 Grand Cherokee had a failure for the rear locking differential module. The dealership was the only place that could reprogram it, and that reflected in the price.

 

[SaberOne]

When I was stationed in Europe, I bought a used 1979 BMW 732i and it never gave me any trouble. During my time there, I also drove a Euro-spec Ford Escort, which was quite different from the U.S. version. The suspension was superior, and the power was impressive for its size. However, I didn't care much for it because it was too small and not ideal for cruising down the Autobahn at 110 miles per hour, which feels like 65 mph here.

 

[wavinwayne]

If I was faced with the prospect of driving the same car for 300k or 400k miles I would cut to the chase, find the nearest 20-30 story building and take a swan dive off of the roof.

Clearly you were born without the GfP gene.

 

[Allaneddie]

A local independent specializes in VW and Audi. My GTI has never seen the inside of a dealership since the day in 2017 I drove it off the lot. But then, all I've needed is oil change and transmission service (DSG transmission).

I'm replying to myself to say this: The GTI finally went to the dealer for 3 recall items 2 weeks ago: all done in 2 hours. A microchip for the transmission, something about a jet pump at the gas tank, and some other minor thing. The dealer was great but the independent is local to me and will continue to be the main shop for this VW. I've had them do the annual 10,000 mile oil change and I do one myself in between at 5000 miles.

 

[Marcozi]

Fix it again Tony.

FIAT: futile Italian attempt at transportation.