Warranty questions

[jdavis]

Hey,

I have a 2008 Toyota Tundra with a 125k platinum warranty through Toyota. I do my own oil changes every 5k miles with 0w-20, which is what Toyota calls for (weight and mileage). It dawned on me today that I haven't been keeping any receipts or anything to prove I've been doing the changes on time and with the correct oil.

Would this ever be a problem if there was an engine failure? I'm sure if they took off a valve cover they would see how clean the engine is but obviously if there's no documented oil changes could I be screwed?

Thanks

 

[gathermewool]

So long as you keep a log, you'll be fine.

If you keep track of your oil changes and top-offs (if needed,) then the chance of experiencing an oil-related failure are nil.

 

[raytseng]

you're pretty much at the finish line for your warranty anyway right?

 

[tratman2000]

They would have to prove it was an oil related problem due to neglect to turn down warranty but it always helps having some type of log you could per say back date one useing alteranating ink pens of color. I have 2 kias with lifetime bumper to bumper warranty and what I do is tear off the lid to the filter box and write on the back the date milage and what oil went in and save it. Although I've read of some that go as far to video themselves changing it detailing the odometer and new filter and oil.

 

[jdavis]

Originally Posted By: raytseng
you're pretty much at the finish line for your warranty anyway right?


60k miles on the truck and 4 years of warranty left.

 

[user52165]

Originally Posted By: tratman2000
They would have to prove it was an oil related problem due to neglect to turn down warranty but it always helps having some type of log you could per say back date one useing alteranating ink pens of color. I have 2 kias with lifetime bumper to bumper warranty and what I do is tear off the lid to the filter box and write on the back the date milage and what oil went in and save it. Although I've read of some that go as far to video themselves changing it detailing the odometer and new filter and oil.


Where do you get lifetime bumper to bumper warranty?

I would like to see the details of that.

 

[mehullica]

Without documentation, you can have trouble with Toyota Extracare warranties. For oil leaks, it's not a problem. For engine mechanical problems, you wil need receipts for buying oil & filters.

 

[skaughtz]

Hm. I really should be keeping receipts. On a tangential note, how would DIY maintenance affect things when going to sell/trade in a car? I keep an extremely detailed Excel log of everything that I do to my vehicles based on the mileage it was performed, the actions I performed, and the parts/fluids that I used (down to the part number). But because I am doing it myself there would be no official record on a history report. Would a dealership scoff at this for a trade in without receipts to back up my claims or would they likely not care?

 

[tratman2000]

Originally Posted By: user52165
Originally Posted By: tratman2000
They would have to prove it was an oil related problem due to neglect to turn down warranty but it always helps having some type of log you could per say back date one useing alteranating ink pens of color. I have 2 kias with lifetime bumper to bumper warranty and what I do is tear off the lid to the filter box and write on the back the date milage and what oil went in and save it. Although I've read of some that go as far to video themselves changing it detailing the odometer and new filter and oil.




I would like to see the details of that.


Where do you get lifetime bumper to bumper warranty?
It was an add on at Stevenson Kia in Jacksonville nc as long as I follow the owners manual changes on everything after the 10 yr 100,000 factory warranty runs out it is a $50 deductible for any repair. Bumper to bumper. So could be as simple as a door speaker

 

[tratman2000]

Originally Posted By: skaughtz
Hm. I really should be keeping receipts. On a tangential note, how would DIY maintenance affect things when going to sell/trade in a car? I keep an extremely detailed Excel log of everything that I do to my vehicles based on the mileage it was performed, the actions I performed, and the parts/fluids that I used (down to the part number). But because I am doing it myself there would be no official record on a history report. Would a dealership scoff at this for a trade in without receipts to back up my claims or would they likely not care?


I've never had any dealer ask about maintenance when trading in. No blue book price adds anything to value so you would get the same value on one that has been perfectly maintained as one that had never even had an oil change as long as no issues are present. That's why when buying used it pays to look really close at all the fluids and inside the oil fill cap.

 

[tratman2000]

Just like these hybrids with expensive batteries they hold the same value blue book with old worn out batteries as one with new that costed a ton

 

[NHHEMI]

Originally Posted By: mehullica
Without documentation, you can have trouble with Toyota Extracare warranties. For oil leaks, it's not a problem. For engine mechanical problems, you wil need receipts for buying oil & filters.


Exactly. Receipts are a MUST when you DIY your own maintenance, or even have it done at a non dealer shop, with a vehicle under warranty. The OP definitely could run into a lot of hassle and even outright refusal of coverage if something happens and he can't provide proof of proper maintenance. Especially with Toyota. They are one of the most strict in that regard of all car mfg's.

A maintenance log, without the corresponding receipts to prove it, is virtually useless in a warranty dispute with all due respect to the other poster who said it was sufficient. Anyone can fake a warranty log. It is not proof to a car mfg unless you have the receipts to back up the entries.

We actually had a member here about 2 years ago or so who had engine failure in his 4Runner. He did his own maintenance as well. Before Toyota would fix it they required proof of the proper # of OC's based on the mileage. The proof they required were receipts showing that A) - he bought enough oil and filters to do it and B) - that he bought the right oil and filters as well. Luckily for him he had that documentation and he got his engine fixed. Without it he would have been on the hook for the repair.

I worked in the auto field for a lot of years including a stint in Dealer Parts & Service. ALL car mfg's require proof you did your maintenance if you DIY. There is nothing rong with DIY just do it right, on time, and KEEP RECEIPTS!

 

[NHHEMI]

Originally Posted By: skaughtz
Hm. I really should be keeping receipts. On a tangential note, how would DIY maintenance affect things when going to sell/trade in a car? I keep an extremely detailed Excel log of everything that I do to my vehicles based on the mileage it was performed, the actions I performed, and the parts/fluids that I used (down to the part number). But because I am doing it myself there would be no official record on a history report. Would a dealership scoff at this for a trade in without receipts to back up my claims or would they likely not care?


Some dealers that are heavily involved with used car sales might give a small premium at trade for a well maintained vehicle with proof of maintenance( i.e. log and receipts to prove it ). Most dealers won't really care too much. They only care about the physical shape of the vehicle, that it seems to run well, and that there are no obvious things they need to do before it can be sold like say putting on tires. A maintenance log, no matter how detailed and well kept, is just useless paper to a dealer or a private buyer without the receipts to prove you did what you claim.

As I posted above maintenance logs can be faked. Without the receipts backing up the entries I wouldn't put any value on one. I would actually almost consider it a negative to be honest. My scam radar would go off even if it were legit( which I wouldn't have any way to know without receipts - see how that works ). I would look at it like this, if the person put that much effort into recording it, if it were legit, they would have kept receipts. It would come across like they are trying to fake it to make it look better. Not meant offensive, btw, just as an explanation of how I would view it.

Now, if you have all of your maintenance and repairs done at the same dealer, whether you use your parts or theirs, and go to trade there you very well could see a premium on trade. Especially if you are a long time customer. It is a good bargaining chip for the buyer to negotiate a higher trade value. I always buy from the same dealer and I have all work done there( my parts for non warranty when possible usually )and I flat out do receive a premium at trade. They know how well I take care of my vehicles( because they do the work as a rule )and they even use my great care to help sell the vehicle.

 

[Vikas]

How does an engine have oil related failure if the owner had indeed did OCI's at recommended or at reasonable interval? If the timing belt breaks at 30K miles, is the manufacturer going to ask for oil change receipts especially if the cursory glance shows that it was NOT running on the factory filter and factory filled oil?

 

[NHHEMI]

Originally Posted By: Vikas
How does an engine have oil related failure if the owner had indeed did OCI's at recommended or at reasonable interval? If the timing belt breaks at 30K miles, is the manufacturer going to ask for oil change receipts especially if the cursory glance shows that it was NOT running on the factory filter and factory filled oil?


Oil related failures will relate to internal part failures. Bearings, rods, valvetrain, etc... Basically the parts that are lubricated by the oil. No, a timing belt that is not lubricated by oil will not play into oil change history. A timing chain that is lubricated by oil does fall under maintenance though( or they try anyway ).

 

[Vikas]

what I was saying is that if the customer indeed follows the oil changes, the chances of actually having any oil related failures withing the warranty periods are basically zero even on junkiest make of a vehicle. Besides, burning 1qt per 800-1000 miles is not even considered "failure" by manufacturers.

I am saying if the oil was changed regularly, bearings, rod and valve-train will NOT croak within warranty period

 

[chrisri]

Originally Posted By: tratman2000
They would have to prove it was an oil related problem due to neglect to turn down warranty but it always helps having some type of log you could per say back date one useing alteranating ink pens of color. I have 2 kias with lifetime bumper to bumper warranty and what I do is tear off the lid to the filter box and write on the back the date milage and what oil went in and save it. Although I've read of some that go as far to video themselves changing it detailing the odometer and new filter and oil.

So what you are saying is that Toyota will warrant any engine failure even if car is not maintained at official Toyota dealership? All you need is to make notes on a piece of paper when you supposedly changed oil? This sounds insane, but great if works. There's no way you could pull something like that over here.

 

[jdavis]

I just changed the oil again at 60,600 miles with 0w-20 and a Toyota oil filter, will be keeping receipts from here on out!

 

[NHHEMI]

Originally Posted By: Vikas
what I was saying is that if the customer indeed follows the oil changes, the chances of actually having any oil related failures withing the warranty periods are basically zero even on junkiest make of a vehicle. Besides, burning 1qt per 800-1000 miles is not even considered "failure" by manufacturers.

I am saying if the oil was changed regularly, bearings, rod and valve-train will NOT croak within warranty period


Proper maintenance is no guarantee the engine will last beyond warranty. Manny factors ranging from how the engine was assembled to how the internal components were built plays into it as well. I have seen a lot of engines fail within the warranty period. It is not as uncommon as you would be led to believe by comments made here at BITOG.

While the probability is low it is not zero. There is a chance, even though it is small, that your engine could fail. Better to just do maintenance on time and keep receipts. Then if it does happen you are good.

The 4Runner I reference above from a few years ago here at BITIG had a serious valvetrain failure. My Sister had her engine fail in a new 06 Impala. It happens. Saw a lot of it when working at the dealer too.

 

[NHHEMI]

Originally Posted By: chrisri
Originally Posted By: tratman2000
They would have to prove it was an oil related problem due to neglect to turn down warranty but it always helps having some type of log you could per say back date one useing alteranating ink pens of color. I have 2 kias with lifetime bumper to bumper warranty and what I do is tear off the lid to the filter box and write on the back the date milage and what oil went in and save it. Although I've read of some that go as far to video themselves changing it detailing the odometer and new filter and oil.

So what you are saying is that Toyota will warrant any engine failure even if car is not maintained at official Toyota dealership? All you need is to make notes on a piece of paper when you supposedly changed oil? This sounds insane, but great if works. There's no way you could pull something like that over here.


Car mfg's in the US can not, by law, require that you have work done at dealerships other than warranty work. If they require that, or require only OEM parts be used, then they must provide it free.

By law here in the US we can do our own work. We just have to make sure we use the correct parts( by application )and fluids( correct weights/spec's/ratings/etc... ). If you DIY, or even have a non dealer shop do the work, you just have to keep your receipts showing the work was done using the right stuff and done on time. No car mfg, and especially Toyota, is going to accept a maintenance log without receipts backing up the entries. Not for major engine repairs anyway.

This whole "they must prove what you did caused it" defense so many talk about when this stuff comes up( part of the same law I talk of above = Magnuson-Moss Act )is really misused and misunderstood. The "proof" card can only be played when it is established that the owner did everything right and the car mfg still tries to deny coverage. The vehicle owner who DIY's, or has work done at non dealer shops, actually has the burden of proof at the outset. Here is an example of what I mean...

A vehicle owner does their own OC's. The car mfg calls for 5W30 oil, with the API Starburst, that meets their oil standard XXX. The oil must also be changed within 6 months or 6,000 miles( whichever comes 1st ). The vehicle owner has to follow these requirements while under warranty. So, the vehicle owner follows the requirements to the letter and keeps receipts showing they did everything right, and on time, using their preferred brand of oil and oil filters. Both met all requirements and were the correct weight/part #.

At some point within warranty the engine suffers a failure, and even after showing proof proper maintenance was done, the car mfg still refuses to repair it under warranty. THIS is when the car mfg has the burden of proof. AFTER the owner shows they did things properly. Not before but after.

The car mfg denies the repair and claims the aftermarket brand oil filter caused it. For this to hold up legally, here, they must be able to show the filter actually caused the failure. They can not deny coverage just because it was not an OEM filter. IF the filter did have a defect or somehow caused the engine failure, and the car mfg can show/prove it, they actually can deny the repair. If not, legally, they must fix it.

Hope that is clear?