Wanting a 93-02 Camaro

[cwilliamsws6]

To give a general reply to everyone here,

Yes I am 17, but I am mechanically inclined and generally know what I'm doing. I want a 2nd car mainly as a backup but also something to have a little fun in because while I do already have a car (the CR-V in my sig) it has sat multiple months combined because I've had to fix things (most of that time spent waiting for parts to ship though) (replace starter, almost all the power steering parts, brakes, etc). It's actually sitting in the garage now because I'm waiting on my high-output alternator to come in the mail and the shorter belt for it.

I want a 93-02 Camaro mainly because of nostalgia tied to that platform of car since we used to have a Trans-Am. I already talked to my insurance person and was told they would likely not insure me on a Trans-Am or a V8 of that platform (no idea why but whatever) so I plan to get an automatic with the V6 because I can insure one, I could actually drive it, and its and better on gas. My CR-V only gets 12mpg, maybe 15 on a good day. Again, no idea why but whatever on that. If I do get one I would probably drive both cars every other day, like rotate them.

Regarding the OptiSpark, that's another reason I plan to just get a 3800 V6 because I know those engines are very reliable. If I did get a V8 it would be a LS1. I'm not too concerned with cracking interior panels.

About the paint and everything, I live in Ohio so the frame is guaranteed to be swiss cheese and the clearcoat probably gone, like my CR-V is a 2007 and it has rust holes forming in the hood already.

 

[Alfred_B]

Originally Posted by clinebarger
Originally Posted by dogememe
Have you considered a Ford Crown Victoria instead?


Where did this come from? Just because your in love with Crown Vic's.....Doesn't mean everyone is!

It's an ongoing joke to suggest a Crown Victoria whenever some asks about buying a car

 

[slacktide_bitog]

Originally Posted by cwilliamsws6

My CR-V only gets 12mpg, maybe 15 on a good day.

About the paint and everything, I live in Ohio so the frame is guaranteed to be swiss cheese and the clearcoat probably gone, like my CR-V is a 2007 and it has rust holes forming in the hood already.


Wait, 12 mpg in a CR-V?

You should be getting at least 20! It's a 4-cylinder Honda! If you can barely get 12-15 mpg on a CR-V, you'll probably get like 6 mpg in a Camaro

In regards to the rust, there may be a Krown shop nearby. Annual rustproofing goes a long way

 

[tony1679]

Originally Posted by LDM
As for the optispark, its not the issue most people make it out to be. The biggest thing is don't get it wet or it will fail.

Tell that to mine that disintegrated into about ten pieces when it went. No water involved...

As for the OP, not surprised at the insurer not willing to cover you (perhaps switch insurance companies?), but the V6s really sucked all the fun out of driving one. Imo, get someone to insure a V8 or get a more fuel efficient car. Why land in the middle with meh gas mileage, meh fun, and still be crammed like a sardine? Go big or make a wise investment (get better mileage). Don't aim for mediocrity.

Edit: See my sig? I did both. 1 that doesn't make me pay (35mpg), 1 that allows me to really play (and still seats 4 adults

). No regrets.

 

[aquariuscsm]

Something must be drastically wrong with your CRV. I drove from Dallas to Houston and back in my Accord on less that a half a tank.

 

[cwilliamsws6]

I think the low mileage is attributed to the fact that my drive to school and work are both less than 3 miles round-trip. I've gotten 25mpg driving to Cincinnati and on longer trips.

 

[Silverado12]

FWIW I have a 2000 Mustang GT that I fixed up from a wreck, and I prefer these hands down to a Camaro/Firebird even though I'm a GM fan. These are well designed and straight-forward to work on as an amateur mechanic (although I was an aviation mechanic in the service, so I've had some formal training).

 

[Dave Hess]

Originally Posted by Silverado12
FWIW I have a 2000 Mustang GT that I fixed up from a wreck, and I prefer these hands down to a Camaro/Firebird even though I'm a GM fan. These are well designed and straight-forward to work on as an amateur mechanic (although I was an aviation mechanic in the service, so I've had some formal training).

What type aircraft ?

 

[Silverado12]

Originally Posted by cwilliamsws6
To give a general reply to everyone here,

Yes I am 17, but I am mechanically inclined and generally know what I'm doing. I want a 2nd car mainly as a backup but also something to have a little fun in because while I do already have a car (the CR-V in my sig) it has sat multiple months combined because I've had to fix things (most of that time spent waiting for parts to ship though) (replace starter, almost all the power steering parts, brakes, etc). It's actually sitting in the garage now because I'm waiting on my high-output alternator to come in the mail and the shorter belt for it.

I want a 93-02 Camaro mainly because of nostalgia tied to that platform of car since we used to have a Trans-Am. I already talked to my insurance person and was told they would likely not insure me on a Trans-Am or a V8 of that platform (no idea why but whatever) so I plan to get an automatic with the V6 because I can insure one, I could actually drive it, and its and better on gas. My CR-V only gets 12mpg, maybe 15 on a good day. Again, no idea why but whatever on that. If I do get one I would probably drive both cars every other day, like rotate them.

Regarding the OptiSpark, that's another reason I plan to just get a 3800 V6 because I know those engines are very reliable. If I did get a V8 it would be a LS1. I'm not too concerned with cracking interior panels.

About the paint and everything, I live in Ohio so the frame is guaranteed to be swiss cheese and the clearcoat probably gone, like my CR-V is a 2007 and it has rust holes forming in the hood already.

Nothing wrong with getting a six. It's still a good looking car that is reliable and should give you good service. My college days after my tour in the service was in a 1970 Camaro 307 V-8. I'll bet the 3.8 in a more modern Camaro is faster.

 

[Silverado12]

Originally Posted by Mr Nice
Originally Posted by Silverado12
FWIW I have a 2000 Mustang GT that I fixed up from a wreck, and I prefer these hands down to a Camaro/Firebird even though I'm a GM fan. These are well designed and straight-forward to work on as an amateur mechanic (although I was an aviation mechanic in the service, so I've had some formal training).

What type aircraft ?

HH-52 helicopters in the USCG. That's all we had at Air Station Savannah, GA. We were at Hunter AAF.

 

[clinebarger]

Originally Posted by Silverado12
FWIW I have a 2000 Mustang GT that I fixed up from a wreck, and I prefer these hands down to a Camaro/Firebird even though I'm a GM fan. These are well designed and straight-forward to work on as an amateur mechanic (although I was an aviation mechanic in the service, so I've had some formal training).


While I really like the SN95 platform......There not any easier to work on than the 4th gen F-body in my opinion especially when comparing Modular to LSx.

 

[aquariuscsm]

Originally Posted by Silverado12
Nothing wrong with getting a six. It's still a good looking car that is reliable and should give you good service. My college days after my tour in the service was in a 1970 Camaro 307 V-8. I'll bet the 3.8 in a more modern Camaro is faster.


^^This.

The GM 3.8 is an awesome engine.

 

[HM12460]

Originally Posted by 69GTX
I've owned 3 LT1's and 2 LS1 4th gens....all V8's. If you want a V6, then you should by the Crown Victoria instead....I've owned 6 Crown Vics.... So I have some experience here. And I've followed the LS1Tech forum for the past 6 yrs learning even more about these cars. That's the best blog on LS1 4th gens. If you find a candidate, you can bring it for comments.

I agree the Optispark is an issue on the LT1's. They also have 50-75 less hp and aren't as easy to build up as the LS1's. LS1's are still all over the roads today in east and south, even if they aren't in California. Many mint examples to choose from that won't break the bank. My advice is to get a 1-2 owner, low mileage (15K-55K) vehicle that needs little where maintenance was documented all along.

The skip shift feature on the LS1 M6 six speed transmission is a non-issue. You just pull the sensor plug off the trans casing. If the yellow light bothers you, have it programmed out with a tuner...simple. I've gone years between connecting and disconnecting mine. Right now it's connected. If I want to bypass the M6 skip shift, just accelerate briskly from 1st gear. If you baby it....you'll get the 1-4 skip.

The best bang for the buck in my mind is the LS1 1998-2002 Camaro Z28's. They are lighter than the Camaro SS, Firebirds and Trans Ams. And they have the same 350 hp overall rating. The Z28's bring about $1000 less than the SS, and about $2500 less than the WS6's.

Weak points on Firebird LS1 are the cracking door panels, nearly all get it. But there are ways to prevent it if you start early. Powered head lamp doors have weak gearing and eventually fail. Same for power antennae. If I could do it again I'd get strippo Z28 with screw on antennae, manual crank windows, and manual seats. Just less stuff to break.

A major weak point on these cars are the roof panel from April 1998-August 2002....they all will have bubbling paint if left out in the hot sun. Your roof panel will blister and look ugly. Painting doesn't resolve it. You have to cut out the old panel and put in a new one....runs about $1500. Not cheap. How to avoid? Buy a 1998 built before April 1999. Those don't have the improper glue prep on the panels...and they do not blister. And a 1998 Z28, SS or even Firebird is the cheapest year of the 1998-2002 run and give you 95-98% of the performance. I prefer the Z28 as it came with 16" tires and a much more comfortable ride than the harsher 17" low profiles on the SS and WS6. It's like night and day in smoothness. If you don't mind the rougher jolting ride, get the SS or WS6.

M6's will cost approx $1K to $1500 more than an automatic. The M6's tend to be a bit noisy and notchy. Watch out for piston slap when cold ....it goes away....but it's annoying. I'd avoid any F body with cold piston slap. You can find nice cars in the $7K-$10K range. I'd avoid the higher mileage ones and those needing work. There's just too many 1-2 owner cars out there in nice shape. And KBB and NADA vastly under-rate the low mileage premium. So you can find cars with 20K miles and a book value of $7K to $8K....pure hog wash. Just find the sellers who go by book. WS6's are feverishly sought after, especially scarce colors like SOM (orange metallic). If you can luck into one of those cheaply, I'd go for it. SOM in a Z28/SS is nice too....same for Hugger Orange. The color pewter doesn't get as much respect as the other colors. Red and Black are most common. But everyone loves a black Firebird and WS6. Those are easy to sell when maintained and looking good. Camaro's are a little tougher sell as they aren't as flashy as the "boy racer " look of the Trans Am and WS6's. These are 20 yrs old now....expect speakers and door motors to need replacing if they haven't already. Engines on these cars are good for 175K-200K miles. Automatic transmissions are solid too. Abused 6 speeds with weak synchros are common. The manual T56 is not a superb transmission. But in the right hands it can last 150K miles without transmission work. If you buy an original 1998-2000 M6....those came from the factory with paper lined synchronizers....much more problematic than the carbon ones from 2001-2002. But using the correct fluids on the paper lined friction rings prevents unwarranted wear and blinding.

I bought my 1999 Camaro SS 6 yrs ago with 12K miles. One owner. I found it on Ebay for $12,000. The owner was close by too. It was pretty mint. I now have 19,600 miles. Not the best cars for winter or rainy driving unless you have some all season tires. I use summer tires all year round....and my SS is mostly garaged from December to March. It can go out for emergencies in winter if the roads are clear but I prefer to minimize that. When I had my 1998 Z28 A4, that saw winter driving on 16" all season tires....and did ok.

With the 5 cars I've owned, I never had anything but routine maintenance repairs...brakes for example. I drove my 1999 from 22K to 115K miles without any major issues other than a tiny pinion seal drip on the rear end (common). Sold it at that time. If you buy a project type car at $2K (roller) to $5K....who knows what you can run into. Sweet spot for nice used cars is $6K to $12K....and I've seen great deals at the $7K to $9K level.






Interesting read, thanks for taking the time to post. I have owned 3 4th generation F bodies. A '93 Z-28, '96 Z-28, and a '94 Firebird Formula. My fav was the '93. Bought it at a Ford dealer in Grand Rapids, MI. in Nov. of 2001 for $4,000. Premium condition and I truly loved that car! LS1 is the one you want today. Pay the premium price and get one in exceptional condition. It will pay off. These cars are difficult to work on and labor is very expensive.

 

[GMguy84]

Boy do I love this read !! Back in the mid 00's out of High School I owned 4 LT1 cars. My online business was doing VERY $$$ good back in those days lol


2 9C1 caprice's and 2 LT1 trans am's !! One was a '94 25th anniversary and the other a black '95 T/A " Home mod Ram air" convertible


Wish that MSD mod opti was around back then, I remember going through some well known GM dealer guy Dale slaugbaugh?? in Ohio to get "hooked up" on new GM parts and even close to dealer cost I was at $1K doing a full tune up on a LT1

Next on my wish list is a LS1 Black WS6 trans am. Missed some good deals around $5-7K


Dave

 

[ls1mike]

I don't find the LS powered cars hard to work on at all. I have done heads/cam/intake/headers.

I find it easier than most FWD cars.

I have had 3 LT1 Cars and 3 LS1 cars. My 2000 WS6 has no cracks or sail panel issues. I put 156,000 miles on my 1998. It was really reliable.

Big thing is if you are going to race a 6 speed you will kill the clutch and you will destroy the rear end.

All of mine have generally just required normal maintenance unless I broke one at the track.

I have been happy with all mine. In general I have seen more people complain about them that don't own them then people who do.

 

[DoubleWasp]

Regarding the Opti-Spark, it's pretty much a one-and-done situation. I've had my China-Spark from Skip White going for over 30k miles with no issues.

The problem children were the early non-vented Optis. The newer model that is vented with engine vacuum has no such issues.

 

[Patman]

Originally Posted by aquariuscsm
Originally Posted by Silverado12
Nothing wrong with getting a six. It's still a good looking car that is reliable and should give you good service. My college days after my tour in the service was in a 1970 Camaro 307 V-8. I'll bet the 3.8 in a more modern Camaro is faster.


^^This.

The GM 3.8 is an awesome engine.


But the problem is that it's still not a V8, and won't have that same sound or torque that the LT1 and LS1 have. And it really isn't that much better on gas.

I factory ordered a Blue Green Chameleon 98 Firebird Formula back in 1998 and it was one of the best cars I have ever owned. (I also bought a 1995 Trans Am brand new and I also owned a 95 Firebird Formula)

 

[aquariuscsm]

Originally Posted by Patman
Originally Posted by aquariuscsm
Originally Posted by Silverado12
Nothing wrong with getting a six. It's still a good looking car that is reliable and should give you good service. My college days after my tour in the service was in a 1970 Camaro 307 V-8. I'll bet the 3.8 in a more modern Camaro is faster.


^^This.

The GM 3.8 is an awesome engine.


But the problem is that it's still not a V8, and won't have that same sound or torque that the LT1 and LS1 have. And it really isn't that much better on gas.

I factory ordered a Blue Green Chameleon 98 Firebird Formula back in 1998 and it was one of the best cars I have ever owned. (I also bought a 1995 Trans Am brand new and I also owned a 95 Firebird Formula)


I totally agree!! If I were to own a Camaro,Firebird,Trans Am,or Mustang it would HAVE to be a V8.

 

[dailydriver]

Originally Posted by ls1mike
I have been happy with all mine. In general I have seen more people complain about them that don't own them then people who do.


THANK YOU!

The domestic nameplate haterzz are usually the biggest culprits of the above, and my 2000 Z28 was one of the most reliable cars I've ever owned in 50 years of driving, despite being beat on by me.

 

[JMHC]

I have a 98 Trans Am with the LS1. It's not too bad to work on, the only tough thing was doing the back 2 spark plugs way under the dash. Those took as long as the other 6 combined, but it's doable. Lots of little things break on these cars, mainly window motors, the factory shocks suck, and at this age I had to do hoses, brakes lines, and some suspension stuff. If you can work on them yourself the parts are cheap. The only thing wrong with mine now is the AC isn't working, but it's 21 years old so... Now the engine pulls like mad, sounds amazing, and even the old GM 4L60E in mine chirps 2nd gear every time. Keep the fluids fresh and the power train will last 100K+ even with abuse. I drive the [censored] out of mine in the summer, granted only about 2,000 miles a year.