Wal Mart oil

[kschachn]

Girly ceiling fans and microwave ovens notwithstanding, I don't really see how motor oil manufacturers could sell a different product at Walmart and yet keep the same name on the bottle. That would be deceptive advertising and illegal. ExxonMobil says M1 EP is good for 15,000 miles on the Walmart bottles same as it does on the ones from Autozone.

Besides, there aren't two (or more) PDS for an oil, one for Walmart and one for non-Walmart. The "range" on a PDS is not for a different product sold at a different store, it represents normal variances in testing and production. The oil has to be the same.

 

[kschachn]

As part of my minor in chemistry I took a fuels & lubricants class. In the lab for that class we performed many of the same tests listed in a PDS using ASTM certified test equipment. There's a bit of variation in test results even with the same exact starting material, and when you add in production variances you see even more. Not enough to degrade or invalidate the product, but variance is inevitable.

All those microwaves and TVs and other consumer products that are different between Walmart and Target and Best Buy have different model and/or part numbers. But motor oil (like Coke, Tide, Cheetos and Charmin) are the same if the product is named the same thing. There aren't different Cheetos in the bag at Walmart.


Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Again, we think it is the same. No way to ensure it absolutely is or isnt without $$$$ of analytical chemistry.

And blending finished chemicals, keeping track of all the products, changing batches, etc. is a bit more complex than swapping part a for part b in a consumer item on a production line set up for that kind of thing.

Depending upon how tankage and batches are handled, I wouldnt doubt that second tier price point sellers get some of the stuff that has a mix of something else (e.g. the blend tank was filled with product A, drain it to make a few batches of B, and the first one which still has residues goes to the lower cost bidder). But that happens all the time depending upon products, and it is why the specs seen on a PDS are always a range and not exact. Does it matter? Most likely not in the slightest.

I dont think we have any compelling basis to say that it is any different (though the walmart buying and product strategy for most anything else would justify the concern), but we also dont have the analytical chemistry to say it isnt... and that analysis is more detailed than what a UOA will provide.

Splitting hairs probably...

 

[Sayjac]

When it comes to M1, they specifically addressed the Wally M1 quality question. http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/Moto...ty_Walmart.aspx

That comes from a previous similar related thread. https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/wal-mart-oil-specs-vs-other-outlets.138062/

 

[mark pruett]

Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd

This post isn't mean to be pro-Walmart or anti-Walmart, but if you choose to avoid a store because of product customizations, you may find that you don't have many places where you can shop.


I'm guessing there are 2 primary reasons why they might customize their products.

1. To get the mix of features that their customers desire, at the price-point they want to sell at. In other words, if their market research determines that their customer base wants to see a flat-screen TV with a certain set of features at a particular price, they'll commission a custom variant to have that, and no other features at that price.

2. To not allow apples to apples comparisons. Rather than let customers compare the same model number at 2 different stores, they want to muddy the waters as much as possible, so direct comparisons are difficult, if not impossible.

3. A third one, not a Wal-Mart one, is to skirt their own "If you can find it cheaper somewhere else, we'll give you the difference" marketing. If the model numbers are specific to your store, by definition, they can't find the same thing elsewhere, so the marketing looks sweet, but is in fact meaningless.

If we were seeing Wal-Mart custom oil, we'd probably see some kind of off-brand version- "Mobil 2" or something like that, so that any performance issues don't dilute the brand name of the premium (Mobil 1) product; I originally thought that Mobil Super Synthetic was exactly that- the Wal-Mart cheaper version of Mobil 1.

 

[kschachn]

There you go again posting facts straight from the horse's mouth. You know, I have read that on the M1 site and forgot about it.

I like your response to Spector in that thread. Bottom line, if you are worried it is different then buy it at Autozone. Or better yet a Mobil gas station. Which by the way, is where I used to buy M1 back in the late '70s because that was pretty much the only place to get it.

Originally Posted By: sayjac
When it comes to M1, they specifically addressed the Wally M1 quality question. http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/Moto...ty_Walmart.aspx

That comes from a previous similar related thread. https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/wal-mart-oil-specs-vs-other-outlets.138062/

 

[Hokiefyd]

Originally Posted By: mark pruett
3. A third one, not a Wal-Mart one, is to skirt their own "If you can find it cheaper somewhere else, we'll give you the difference" marketing. If the model numbers are specific to your store, by definition, they can't find the same thing elsewhere, so the marketing looks sweet, but is in fact meaningless.


I believe this is the main reason for doing it. It makes it very hard for the customer to get a price match, because they're technically all different products.

 

[NormanBuntz]

Valvoline bes Valvoline.

 

[mark pruett]

Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
Originally Posted By: mark pruett
3. A third one, not a Wal-Mart one, is to skirt their own "If you can find it cheaper somewhere else, we'll give you the difference" marketing. If the model numbers are specific to your store, by definition, they can't find the same thing elsewhere, so the marketing looks sweet, but is in fact meaningless.


I believe this is the main reason for doing it. It makes it very hard for the customer to get a price match, because they're technically all different products.


Actually, if I had to guess, based on what I learned in business school, I'd think #2 is the most likely. #3 only applies if they're actually hawking that kind of thing, which Wal-Mart really doesn't.

But since they're competing on price, they don't want it to be very clear when they're not the lowest price on something, so having custom models is a way to obscure the issue and make it hard to compare.

 

[R80RS]

Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
Originally Posted By: R80RS
This is a good question. I purchased a name brand microwave oven at Walmart some years ago....... I have never purchased an item of any significance at Walmart since.


This is more common than you think, and this is an industry trend, not specific to any one retailer.

Many electronics are this way (computers, printers, etc). Best Buy might have the Canon 123B, Target might carry the Canon 123T, and Walmart might sell the Canon 123W. They're largely the same printer, but with small trim and fascia changes. Same with many things like BBQ grilles, lawn furniture, consumer electronics and appliances, sporting goods, shoes, etc. Even tires many times. Ironically, if you want the true, generic, BASE product designed by the manufacturer, you often have to buy online. Almost every brick-and-mortar store has their own customized product line.

Believe it or not, even ceiling fans are this way. We bought a girly pink Hunter ceiling fan for our daughter's room this weekend. The one at Lowe's had cute little pink lamp shades on the three bulbs. The one at Home Depot had one central globe, but little pink frillies around the motor fascia and a different blade pattern.

Lowe's sells the 44" Dreamland model:
http://www.lowes.com/pd_227795-79-51026_...7597&rpp=32

Home Depot sells the 44" Annabelle model:
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Hunter-Annabelle-44-in-Indoor-White-Ceiling-Fan-52020/203806339

And both sell for 100 bucks. This is no coinkydink.

This post isn't mean to be pro-Walmart or anti-Walmart, but if you choose to avoid a store because of product customizations, you may find that you don't have many places where you can shop.


Agreed Hokiefyd. I had the same experience with an Andersen storm door I purchased at Home Depot. I needed replacement parts for the latch, and found Andersen had two different parts lists - one for the model sold at HD and one for the model sold everywhere else. Both models were visually identical but their internal construction was a little different. I'm not pro or anti Walmart or HD, I still buy some things there, but I don't purchase significant items at either.

 

[BuickGuy]

Wow!!! Thanks for all the replies. Im not a tin foil hat guy, but I am concerned that Valvoline will not give me a direct yes or no answer to that question. You guys do bring up a very valid point about retailers making a subtle change in the ID of the products. The thing that really caused me to wonder about the oil is a previous experience with WalMart. Please understand that I am not "anti WalMart" per se, but a few years back when my daughter was about to graduate college, I replaced the tires on her car with Goodyear tires from WalMart. My thinking at the time was, I had no idea where she would end up, but there would probably be a WalMart near if she needed service. Turned out she was only 60 miles away, but when 3 of the tires had failed within 28000 miles, I complained to my Goodyear retailer who told me that these tires were WalMart specific and he would not service them, nor would he let his daughter drive on them. I took his advice and replaced them with Yokohamas and lived happily ever after (for about 75000 miles anyway). I have used Valvoline oil for over a million miles and currently have a 02 LeSabre approching 300,000 miles and just retired a Dodge truck with 288,000 VERY hard miles. Obviously I really trust Valvoline and was just wondering if I could save some $$ buying my SYN-power at Wally's. Thanks Guys

 

[kschachn]

Tires are different. They are always given a different name at Walmart (or Sam's or Costco) and they have different part numbers. Oil is not like that. The SynPower at Walmart is not named different than it is elsewhere.

However, if you insist on worrying, why not get it at Autozone on special? It is only a buck or two more on their deals. Or buy another brand on sale at Autozone with a filter deal. I don't know what will convince you since you seem to want to believe otherwise.

Even if it were different - which it is not - just how inferior do you think it would be? So inferior as to be worth the extra money to buy it elsewhere? That is a choice you would have to make based on a belief that it is different in the first place.

Originally Posted By: BuickGuy
Wow!!! Thanks for all the replies. Im not a tin foil hat guy, but I am concerned that Valvoline will not give me a direct yes or no answer to that question. You guys do bring up a very valid point about retailers making a subtle change in the ID of the products. The thing that really caused me to wonder about the oil is a previous experience with WalMart. Please understand that I am not "anti WalMart" per se, but a few years back when my daughter was about to graduate college, I replaced the tires on her car with Goodyear tires from WalMart. My thinking at the time was, I had no idea where she would end up, but there would probably be a WalMart near if she needed service. Turned out she was only 60 miles away, but when 3 of the tires had failed within 28000 miles, I complained to my Goodyear retailer who told me that these tires were WalMart specific and he would not service them, nor would he let his daughter drive on them. I took his advice and replaced them with Yokohamas and lived happily ever after (for about 75000 miles anyway). I have used Valvoline oil for over a million miles and currently have a 02 LeSabre approching 300,000 miles and just retired a Dodge truck with 288,000 VERY hard miles. Obviously I really trust Valvoline and was just wondering if I could save some $$ buying my SYN-power at Wally's. Thanks Guys

 

[Sayjac]

Originally Posted By: kschachn
There you go again posting facts straight from the horse's mouth. You know, I have read that on the M1 site and forgot about it.

I like your response to Spector in that thread. Bottom line, if you are worried it is different then buy it at Autozone. Or better yet a Mobil gas station. Which by the way, is where I used to buy M1 back in the late '70s because that was pretty much the only place to get it.

Originally Posted By: sayjac
When it comes to M1, they specifically addressed the Wally M1 quality question. http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/Moto...ty_Walmart.aspx

That comes from a previous similar related thread. https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/wal-mart-oil-specs-vs-other-outlets.138062/

Just trying to keep it real.

And as for the 5qt Wally jug, no different than AAP using 5.1 qt jug, and AZ using a 5+ qt jug. Makes the price match policy at AAP with other auto parts stores void and I'd assume the same for AZ. Also because of the proprietary AAP AZ jugs Wally's price match policy would not apply. But any quarts promo price at the auto parts stores does apply to the Wally price, but generally qts are not as good a value as the jugs.

Not sure why unlike M1 the Valvoline CSR's didn't specifically say it's exactly the same, but they said that it's theirs. Perhaps the answer was above their pay grade or not in the book of answers. lol Again, quite confident all the majors' name brand oils including Valvoline sold at Wally is the same as that sold at other retailers.

As for GY tire sold at Wally, as mentioned above different beast. Many GY tires sold at Wally are "made for" tires, made specifically to Wally specs and have different names. Sounds like it was that GY retailers policy not service GY made for Wally tires. Oil with same majors branded name, specs and certs is all the same. So apples and oranges with tires.

As mentioned if still in doubt now though, purchase elsewhere. Simple.

 

[mark pruett]

It really doesn't make sense that they'd sell inferior oil at Wal-Mart under the same brand as the good stuff they sell elsewhere.

Why? Because if they did that, the cheap Wal-Mart [censored] would tarnish their brand image, and hurt sales everywhere else, even though the 'everywhere else' stuff is the real deal.

They'd more than likely do exactly what happens with tires, and sell some other Valvoline brand cheaper- instead of Valvoline Premium, they might sell inferior oil as a brand like "Valvoline Xtra" so that Valvoline Premium sales wouldn't be hurt elsewhere.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: mark pruett
Actually, if I had to guess, based on what I learned in business school, I'd think #2 is the most likely. #3 only applies if they're actually hawking that kind of thing, which Wal-Mart really doesn't.

Well, they sure as heck do it up here. Normally, SOPUS and Valvoline jugs up here are 5 L. That's the regular stock that Walmart has. When they do a rollback, they bring in 4.73 L jugs (5 U.S. quarts). This accomplishes a few things. First, they don't have to play with pricing in the system - the 4.73 L stuff is always rolled back, and if the stock is still there when the rollback ends, it's still at rollback. If they're out of stock, people buy the 5 L jug at the regular price. Additionally, almost no other retailer up here gets the 4.73 L jug, except Canadian Tire on rare, rare cases.

From a logistics standpoint, I appreciate why Walmart is doing that. It makes a lot of things much easier. But, it doesn't do much for any price matching under any store's policy, given different sizing.

 

[artificialist]

I'm thinking that if the oil sold in Wal-Mart was made more cheaply, the oil manufacturer would also have to certify the cheaper stuff, and the price of certifying the cheap stuff might be more expensive than making 2 different oils.

 

[y_p_w]

Originally Posted By: artificialist
I'm thinking that if the oil sold in Wal-Mart was made more cheaply, the oil manufacturer would also have to certify the cheaper stuff, and the price of certifying the cheap stuff might be more expensive than making 2 different oils.

That's sort of what I was thinking - that they might need to give it a different name and API certification. However, it's not unusual for companies to change their formula slightly even within the same API service classification.

In another thread I mentioned that I bought some Kendall 10W-30 off the same store shelf. Once opened and poured, two were noticeably different in color and odor even though the bottles were identical. I'm not sure how they handled it, but it had to be more than just manufacturing variances based off the same formula. I think it might have been different additive packs. I'm guessing it might be possible to turn in multiple test results for a reformulation, but keep the certification under the same brand.

As for the customization, I hear the Chinese company Haier is one of the biggest at customizing electronics just for specific manufacturers. They can do a complete turnaround request in a few weeks, including printing manuals and boxes. However, the item that's always customized to avoid exact comparisons would be mattresses. I've been to a mattress factory before during a special direct sale to the public. You could see how they could customize spring count, spring type, padding, quilting, cover materials, etc. I would think they would have been able to make millions of different combinations. And most are made to order so they don't stay around too long. The last mattress we bought was made the day after we ordered it and delivered the next day.

 

[salv]

Originally Posted By: y_p_w
Originally Posted By: artificialist
I'm thinking that if the oil sold in Wal-Mart was made more cheaply, the oil manufacturer would also have to certify the cheaper stuff, and the price of certifying the cheap stuff might be more expensive than making 2 different oils.

That's sort of what I was thinking - that they might need to give it a different name and API certification. However, it's not unusual for companies to change their formula slightly even within the same API service classification.

In another thread I mentioned that I bought some Kendall 10W-30 off the same store shelf. Once opened and poured, two were noticeably different in color and odor even though the bottles were identical. I'm not sure how they handled it, but it had to be more than just manufacturing variances based off the same formula. I think it might have been different additive packs. I'm guessing it might be possible to turn in multiple test results for a reformulation, but keep the certification under the same brand.

As for the customization, I hear the Chinese company Haier is one of the biggest at customizing electronics just for specific manufacturers. They can do a complete turnaround request in a few weeks, including printing manuals and boxes. However, the item that's always customized to avoid exact comparisons would be mattresses. I've been to a mattress factory before during a special direct sale to the public. You could see how they could customize spring count, spring type, padding, quilting, cover materials, etc. I would think they would have been able to make millions of different combinations. And most are made to order so they don't stay around too long. The last mattress we bought was made the day after we ordered it and delivered the next day.

Kendall, and all the ConocoPhillips oils changed within the last year, while still meeting SN/GF5 specs. They all saw a reduction in starting TBN. That doesn't mean that TBN retention has not improved. Since they make Motorcraft oil, I am sure that pressures from Ford to meet the needs of the newer EcoBoost engines have led them to tweak the additive chemistry a bit.

 

[DragRace]

This thread is a perfect example of some of you people that need other hobbies to keep you busy,seriously.

 

[kschachn]

No might about it. Neither can you sell a different product under the same name, nor can you sell the same product under two different names. I used to work for a large multi-national company (and they aren't all evil BTW), and we dealt with this all the time.

Originally Posted By: y_p_w
That's sort of what I was thinking - that they might need to give it a different name and API certification.

 

[y_p_w]

Originally Posted By: salv
Originally Posted By: y_p_w
Originally Posted By: artificialist
I'm thinking that if the oil sold in Wal-Mart was made more cheaply, the oil manufacturer would also have to certify the cheaper stuff, and the price of certifying the cheap stuff might be more expensive than making 2 different oils.

That's sort of what I was thinking - that they might need to give it a different name and API certification. However, it's not unusual for companies to change their formula slightly even within the same API service classification.

In another thread I mentioned that I bought some Kendall 10W-30 off the same store shelf. Once opened and poured, two were noticeably different in color and odor even though the bottles were identical. I'm not sure how they handled it, but it had to be more than just manufacturing variances based off the same formula. I think it might have been different additive packs. I'm guessing it might be possible to turn in multiple test results for a reformulation, but keep the certification under the same brand.

As for the customization, I hear the Chinese company Haier is one of the biggest at customizing electronics just for specific manufacturers. They can do a complete turnaround request in a few weeks, including printing manuals and boxes. However, the item that's always customized to avoid exact comparisons would be mattresses. I've been to a mattress factory before during a special direct sale to the public. You could see how they could customize spring count, spring type, padding, quilting, cover materials, etc. I would think they would have been able to make millions of different combinations. And most are made to order so they don't stay around too long. The last mattress we bought was made the day after we ordered it and delivered the next day.

Kendall, and all the ConocoPhillips oils changed within the last year, while still meeting SN/GF5 specs. They all saw a reduction in starting TBN. That doesn't mean that TBN retention has not improved. Since they make Motorcraft oil, I am sure that pressures from Ford to meet the needs of the newer EcoBoost engines have led them to tweak the additive chemistry a bit.

This was a long time ago. Might have been on the change from SH to SJ. The brand was owned by some company called "Sun" something I think, but it wasn't Sunoco.

However, I was always under the impression that a formula could always be changed in the middle of an API cycle, and all they needed to do was submit the testing results to show it passed.

However, I don't think even Wal-Mart has the pull to do get some different formulation of the big brands just for themselves. There are things that are easy enough to customize, but that's not one of them. I also suspect that a lot of house brands are the same formulations such that their test results can be shared for submission to API. I doubt that supermarkets sold enough of their house branded motor oil to justify running the sequence tests for a custom formulation.