VW to kill off petrol and diesel combustion cars from 2026

[philipp10]

Originally Posted by HemiHawk
What interests me the most about electric vehicles is the *hopefully* higher ease of maintenance. No more oil, no more gas, no more filters. Just charge it, make sure the tires are good, and good. Those motors must be easier to manufacture and troubleshoot compared to ICEs right?

The other thing is that ranges have gotten very good. I think it was Musk/Tesla that claimed most American's don't drive more than 50 miles a day. Not sure if true, but even if its double that... an EV can do that no problem.

and Elon Musk is right.....99% of all travel trips per day are under an electric cars capabilities. Just because some poster does a lot of interstate travel does not change that fact. When they get electric cars on par with gas cars costs....then you will see. And btw, I won't be one of them jumping on the electric car bandwagon. I'm older and like my gas powered cars. But soon we will die off leaving a more open minded generation.

Now after saying all this, I am still not convinced electrics will hit cost parity anytime soon. The way gas mileage is going, its a moving target as gasoline cars have greatly improved. Time will tell but I don't see 2025 as having electrics take over either.

 

[PimTac]

Originally Posted by philipp10
Originally Posted by HemiHawk
What interests me the most about electric vehicles is the *hopefully* higher ease of maintenance. No more oil, no more gas, no more filters. Just charge it, make sure the tires are good, and good. Those motors must be easier to manufacture and troubleshoot compared to ICEs right?

The other thing is that ranges have gotten very good. I think it was Musk/Tesla that claimed most American's don't drive more than 50 miles a day. Not sure if true, but even if its double that... an EV can do that no problem.

and Elon Musk is right.....99% of all travel trips per day are under an electric cars capabilities. Just because some poster does a lot of interstate travel does not change that fact. When they get electric cars on par with gas cars costs....then you will see. And btw, I won't be one of them jumping on the electric car bandwagon. I'm older and like my gas powered cars. But soon we will die off leaving a more open minded generation.

Now after saying all this, I am still not convinced electrics will hit cost parity anytime soon. The way gas mileage is going, its a moving target as gasoline cars have greatly improved. Time will tell but I don't see 2025 as having electrics take over either.




2025 will be enough time for VW to get their assembly process on track.

Again it will come down to infrastructure. When tens of millions plug in their cars at 1800, will the generation be capable? Some areas like So Cal have a hard time in summer with air conditioning demand thus resorting to rotating brownouts or blackouts.

 

[Trav]

That's exactly the reality the VW engineers have not thought about. They live in a county that unscheduled power outages are almost unheard of unlike some places like the north east USA that looses power every snowstorm in places. We lost power for 3 weeks one December. What then?
Many parts of the USA especially in the NE may be a first world county in most ways but infrastructure and public transportation is almost as bad as third world sub Saharan Africa.

Wires on sticks that can be taken out by some hooch hound on Saturday night or a small tree limb in a snow storm is nothing to be dependent on for you main source of transportation IMO.

 

[Cujet]

It's not one poster doing a lot of interstate driving.

It is a large segment of American motorists.

And I've not missed the story or point. I specifically addressed the multi car family.

I counter that with the fact that not everyone is part of that culture or can afford it. Let's face the facts, EV's are more expensive and less capable. That's not changing anytime soon.

 

[PeterPolyol]

Originally Posted by SubieRubyRoo
SonofJoe, since you seem to be fairly knowledgeable about several things, I want to ask you a question about the veracity of "climate change & global warming". If the US military has been doing it since the '60s, and China admits that they have been "modifying" weather, especially for the Olympics, how much of Al Gore's world do you think is contrived and manipulated onto us vs. what is naturally occurring? This is not a political question, it's asking to step back and look at things scientifically. As Linctex's signature says, the evidence demands a verdict, and I'm willing to bet it's not the same spiel we hear on the news everyday.

THIS GUY is thinking. Can't say I can regress back to sympathizing with what SoJ has said on this issue, but at least he's further ahead than MOST people, who could not even possibly fathom.

Generally speaking though, we as a society need to get our heads out of our butts and SERIOUSLY GET UP TO SPEED in this matter.

 

[SonofJoe]

Originally Posted by PeterPolyol
Originally Posted by SubieRubyRoo
SonofJoe, since you seem to be fairly knowledgeable about several things, I want to ask you a question about the veracity of "climate change & global warming". If the US military has been doing it since the '60s, and China admits that they have been "modifying" weather, especially for the Olympics, how much of Al Gore's world do you think is contrived and manipulated onto us vs. what is naturally occurring? This is not a political question, it's asking to step back and look at things scientifically. As Linctex's signature says, the evidence demands a verdict, and I'm willing to bet it's not the same spiel we hear on the news everyday.

THIS GUY is thinking. Can't say I can regress back to sympathizing with what SoJ has said on this issue, but at least he's further ahead than MOST people, who could not even possibly fathom.

Generally speaking though, we as a society need to get our heads out of our butts and SERIOUSLY GET UP TO SPEED in this matter.



Thanks for the kind words.

For what it's worth, I'm not some raving, Greenpeace flag waving loony! I drive a car like everyone else. I have electrical appliances in my house like everyone else & I've just come back off holiday, where I got on a 747.

However I'm going to get my first granddaughter in a few weeks time. When she's my age, it's going to be 2080. Even if the scientists are half right, the climate then is going to be very different from what it is today. I reckon I owe it to her to 'do something' to mitigate the effects of global warming. If that means foregoing the big BMW in favour of my tiny Suzuki, on my reckoning, that's a price worth paying. Ditto turning unnecessary lights off or not whacking up the thermostat on the central heating when it's just as easy (& a bit more cosy) to throw a blanket over yourselves.

And yes, before people remind me that my miniscule contribution will get wiped out by all the new Chinese coal fired power stations coming on stream, I know & I don't care! I'm still going to do my bit. If enough people something, it will have an impact.

 

[neo3]

"respected, sober voices screaming about how climate change & global warming are already upon us..."

Yeah well the fact they're screaming should give you a clue that they're not sober and shouldn't automatically be respected. It's politics.

The really ironic thing is that some years ago (soon after Fukushima) Germany mandated the closing down of all nuclear power plants, which is the only clean source of energy on the scale that would be needed for a mass conversion to electric cars.

My own opinion is that large metro areas should *require* electric cars only within their boundries. Those areas are the major pollution sources. The manufacturers would follow the demand. For a company to decide to restrict their future engine type seems kind of dumb from a business perspective.

 

[VNTS]

scrambling when market doesnt shift, no oem should put all their eggs in one basket but then again after their lying and cheating scandal maybe they have no choice but to change narrative that they are so concerned about saving the planet, I call BS and hope it backfires on them

 

[emg]

Originally Posted by double vanos
The ICE has had over 100+ years of development time and tons of cash invested in it and it shows.


Electric cars are ancient technology. Our ancestors had them a hundred-and-fifty years ago. As soon as the ICE appeared, they dumped the electric cars because... they sucked.

A hundred-and-fifty more years of development, with tons of cash invested, and... electric cars still suck. Just not as bad.

Voluntary mass adoption of electric cars requires one of two things:

1. An end to long-distance travel.
2. A massive improvement in battery technology.

Until then, they're just expensive toys.

Originally Posted by PimTac
I'm still waiting for the Ice Age that was the prediction for the year 2000 way back when.


May not have long to wait. A number of scientists are predicting that we're heading into a new Little Ice Age right now, as there are barely any sunspots on the sun, like the Maunder Minimum a few centuries ago. And, if true, that will be far, far worse than 'global warming'. Like billions of people dying of starvation worse.

 

[Cujet]

In a nutshell, EV's are:

Double the cost of a comparable conventional car.
Have half the effective range, at best.

 

[benjy]

prolly a lot of bull poo on EV's, government $$$ aka our taxes as subsidies are pushing it but prolly some time before they are good enough + affordable!! hey i won't even buy a vehicle with a slushbox tranny!!!!

 

[bbhero]

Originally Posted by SonofJoe
I'm as much a cynic as the next man but I'm convinced that this move is real and the mega-shift to EVs & autonomous vehicles IS coming.

Unless you've been hiding under a rock, you must be aware now of respected, sober voices screaming about how climate change & global warming are already upon us & about to get a lot worse. VW's (& other major OEMs) are simly reacting to what they know is coming down the pipe, both in terms of government legislation & societal attitude change.

No doubt this will all be decried, denied & resisted by the greedy, grasping, me-me-me, don't-you-dare-infringe-my-personal-rights, aging boomer generation but face it guys, another 10 - 20 years and we'll all be dead & no one will give a stuff what we think!



Tell your buddy to stop flying all over the world in his private jet that uses more fuel in 1 cross US trip than the average American uses in a year... And tell him to sell his two homes.... One that is really quite large... And tell your buddy to live in a tiny house with solar panels.... And to fly commercial if that World Champion wants to fly all over ..... Then... I will believe his garbage. .

 

[bbhero]

Originally Posted by wemay
Originally Posted by SonofJoe
I'm as much a cynic as the next man but I'm convinced that this move is real and the mega-shift to EVs & autonomous vehicles IS coming.

Unless you've been hiding under a rock, you must be aware now of respected, sober voices screaming about how climate change & global warming are already upon us & about to get a lot worse. VW's (& other major OEMs) are simly reacting to what they know is coming down the pipe, both in terms of government legislation & societal attitude change.

No doubt this will all be decried, denied & resisted by the greedy, grasping, me-me-me, don't-you-dare-infringe-my-personal-rights, aging boomer generation but face it guys, another 10 - 20 years and we'll all be dead & no one will give a stuff what we think!



Agreed.



Again... Tell y'all's World Champion friend to live 180° different...



If the one who pushes this stuff can't be asked to live according to his own "words"... How can it be so real?? Because he doesn't really believe it either. That's OBVIOUS by his behaviors and choices....

Again... Live according to what one says they believe...

And I didn't care for people on TV selling a certain belief system thirty plus years ago.... They were garbage too... Just like y'all's buddy.

Think about it... Seriously.


And computer models are having data input into them by people with a agenda... And model interpretation of them is not always accurate... I just saw this past weekend.... One World Champion there called for zero snow at my location... And hardly 3 inches in Richmond.... Well my area got 6 inches and Richmond got 10-13 inches... And the models didn't magically change either.... That guy was a dunce... And he was a pompous dunce at that... Changing the forecast by the previous person at a very unusual time. Thus making himself to look even dumber. And the other guys forecast was a little but closer to what actually happened. So..
You all expect people to trust people with model interpretation when they can't even forecast the weather the next day.... Come on get real

It means that the magical forecast has to be accurate for each location in the whole world over within a accuracy of +or- 0.2°C for each day, for every year and for decades on and on... ahead of time... How many data points must be that super accurate would that be?? Yeah. A lot of them. No way, no how. If that were possible... Then guess what??? They would have the ability to hit every forecast EXACTLY right all the time right now.. Plus all the observation temps would all be forecast right on exactly now too.... Well that is not the case.

 

[bbhero]

By the way I do think EVs have a place for sure..

And I do think they could be very good for a high number of people. No doubt in that. Especially those who live and work in concentrated areas of population.

I also like the research and work that are going into EVs. It is needed.

 

[PimTac]

Bbhero, what did you have for breakfast?

I agree. This whole climate change or whatever it's called this year is a scheme and and a scandal. Is there climate change occurring? Yes and it has been occurring since the earth was made. There is nothing man can do to change what is inevitable. These calls that the North Pole will be ice free in five years are fake science. Btw, AlGore said that back in 2007 so what happened?

Growing up, we were all supposed to be covered under ice by 2000 and the Van Allen belts were going to get out of control and fry us. Nobody even talks about the Ban Allen belts anymore.

EVs will have their place but people want to move about and anything that restricts travel likely has ulterior motives attached. For the time being, until power generation is ample this is a classic cart before the horse scenario.

 

[jstert]

vw's all electric announcement is more arrogant, selfsatisfying virtue signaling by adults who should know better. by 2026 the mini ice age caused by the maunder solar cycle minimum will be kicking in; all those "evil" (i.e. old school, efficient and reliable) fossil fuel burning, internal combustion engines will look mighty warm and inviting.

 

[emg]

I suspect it's more that VW are betting that more and more virtue-signalling governments will be banning ICE cars before then.

But that will likely backfire when the people of those countries say they don't want crappy EVs instead of the ICEs they're used to.

 

[SonofJoe]

More liberal virtue signalling from BITOG's resident Euro snowflake gun-hating lefty pinko (did I leave anything out?) ...

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/euro-6-diesels-could-be-banned-three-european-cities

 

[emg]

The amusing part is that, when I lived in the UK twenty years ago, the government were pushing 'clean, green diesels' over petrol engines, even though those of us who drove petrol cars could tell that having black clouds of smoke belching out of your exhaust every time you accelerated didn't seen very 'green'. Now diesels are the Vile Vehicles Of [censored].

On that basis, pretty soon they'll be banning electric vehicles for catching fire in a crash or something.

 

[SonofJoe]

Unless you lived in the UK in the 1950s, or have the frankly weird ability to visually detect sub-10 micron particulates, you'll know that modern diesels don't belch out clouds of black smoke. I know it's de rigeur in the US these days but over here, exaggerating the bejesus out of stuff to cement your own prejudiced opinion is considered rather bad form.

And the old 'the government made me...' thing is a bit lame too. Her Majesty's Government, contrary to popular rumour, never once 'pushed' people to buy diesels over petrol engined cars. Here, the tax levied on both fuels is exactly the same, with a small adjustment for the higher density of diesel which makes it slightly more expensive. The tax on the cars themselves is the same (it's slightly higher in absolute terms for diesels because diesels cost more). The yearly 'road tax' we pay was based on CO2/km emissions. In practice, this does favour the diesel engine because they're inherently more thermally efficient but if two cars, one diesel, the other petrol emit the same amount of CO2, they pay the same amount of road tax. Also, road tax, until very recently was peanuts (below 100 g/km you pay nothing).

Now did people suss out that modern diesels made fantastic sense because of their high torque, brilliant fuel economy & cheaper servicing? That I can agree with, which is why people bought them in droves. But that's very different to being some great conspirorial 'government push'!

Had it not been for the NOx issue & the fact that the public & governments everywhere were conned by the OEMs into believing they were very low when in reality, they were obscenely high, EVs wouldn't be as centre stage as they are today.