Oh, not sure if this already got posted but VW clarified their initial announcement to say of course they will continue to produce ICEs after 2026. It's just that the date signifies the end of ICE development (which given how long the ICE has been around, isn't actually that much of a surprise!).
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/...ue-produce-combustion-engines-after-2026
VW to kill off petrol and diesel combustion cars from 2026
- Thread starter wemay
- Start date
Originally Posted by SonofJoe
Unless you lived in the UK in the 1950s, or have the frankly weird ability to visually detect sub-10 micron particulates, you'll know that modern diesels don't belch out clouds of black smoke.
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Her Majesty's Government, contrary to popular rumour, never once 'pushed' people to buy diesels over petrol engined cars.
I think you're one of those dolt-Right types who believes in anything that feeds your own set of personal of grievances (of which I suspect there are many).
Yes, diesel particulates are harmful which is why every European diesel that's come off the production line in the last decade has been fitted with a particulate trap. I remember being at Stuttgart talking to Daimler about them not long after the turn of the millennium so lots of cars were being fitted with traps long before they became mandatory. It's very hard to blow black smoke through a trap's ceramic matrix. At worst your going to see a transient 'blip' of smoke when you floor the accelerator & drop down a couple of gears. I see that from time to time & yes it's annoying but 'great belches of black smoke'? I think you're over-egging that particular pudding mate.
And 'green propaganda'? I think your willfully confusing legitimate product advertising with Dr Goebbels's dark arts. We don't do 'propaganda' here. Was that advertising deeply flawed? Well yes & the OEMs who lied have been punished accordingly.
And 'diesel exhaust being worse than gasoline exhaust'? Again you seem to just want to engage with half the argument. In terms of particulates & NOx, yes but if you factor in CO2, it's not at all straightforward that gasoline engine exhaust is less harmful than diesel exhaust. If it can be said that big European cities have a NOx problem, then North America has a CO2 problem, one which will increasing bite you on the bum unless you start to change some time soon.
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Originally Posted by SonofJoe
At worst your going to see a transient 'blip' of smoke when you floor the accelerator & drop down a couple of gears. I see that from time to time & yes it's annoying but 'great belches of black smoke'? I think you're over-egging that particular pudding mate.
We don't have emission testing in NZ...cars sold here used to have all the emision stuff removed. And as SoJ says, black smoke from diesels has been gone for many years, and the smell too. I don't know what sort of diesels they have in the US to make clouds of black smoke and an evil smell, but it appears the rest of the world doesn't get that model.
Originally Posted by SonofJoe
At worst your going to see a transient 'blip' of smoke when you floor the accelerator & drop down a couple of gears. I see that from time to time & yes it's annoying but 'great belches of black smoke'? I think you're over-egging that particular pudding mate.
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And 'green propaganda'? I think your willfully confusing legitimate product advertising with Dr Goebbels's dark arts. We don't do 'propaganda' here.
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Was that advertising deeply flawed? Well yes & the OEMs who lied have been punished accordingly.
Quote
And 'diesel exhaust being worse than gasoline exhaust'? Again you seem to just want to engage with half the argument. In terms of particulates & NOx, yes but if you factor in CO2, it's not at all straightforward that gasoline engine exhaust is less harmful than diesel exhaust.
Originally Posted by wemay
VW to kill off petrol and diesel combustion cars from 2026
https://thedriven.io/2018/12/05/vw-to-kill-petrol-and-diesel-combustion-cars-from-2026/
Originally Posted by TheDriven
The current range of internal combustion engine cars being developed by Volkswagen AG brands will be the last ever, VW chief strategist Michael Jost said this week.
With an electrification strategy firmly in place for the group's stable of auto brands, VW is now ready to embrace the end of ICE age and is planning the last rollout of ICE platform cars in eight year's time.
The car maker, which works in seven-year development cycles, says its next cycle will begin in 2025 and will include electric vehicles only.
"Our colleagues are working on the last platform for vehicles that aren't CO2 neutral," Jost said at an industry conference near the company's HQ in Wolfsburg, Germany on Tuesday.
"We're gradually fading out combustion engines to the absolute minimum."
....
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EV thoughts: Most of us consider the powerplant to grid to charger to battery, then from battery to motor to wheel,
conversion to have significant losses.
What's interesting is that we now know exactly how big the losses are, as the US Government publishes them!
EV Grid to wheel efficiency is 59% to 62%. https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/evtech.shtml
Worldwide fuel burning powerplant average efficiency is 33%
USA powerplant fuel burning efficiency average is possibly as high as 38%
(yes, the best NG powerplants can achieve 60% in ideal conditions)
National grid losses are about 7.5% https://www.eia.gov/electricity/state/
We also know that EV's, driven normally in mixed driving consume about 340WH per mile. NOTE: Cold weather and heat use/Hot weather and AC use dramatically affect consumption. The 340wh per mile number is relatively accurate in overall use. Yes, some EV owners consume 280 wh per mile. They live in temperate climates, drive slow and don't use heat or AC.
Interestingly, it seems to take 1.6 gallons of fuel oil to make enough power to charge an EV to go 40 highway miles.
More interestingly, in some locations, (once fees and taxes are added in) EV's cost considerably more per mile than gas vehicles.
The Chevy Volt, which can be operated either as a EV or as a gas only vehicle costs 10c/mile (locally) on electric power and 5.3c/mile on gas.
Thanks for the great info. Definitely interesting.
Originally Posted by Cujet
EV thoughts: Most of us consider the powerplant to grid to charger to battery, then from battery to motor to wheel,
conversion to have significant losses.
What's interesting is that we now know exactly how big the losses are, as the US Government publishes them!
EV Grid to wheel efficiency is 59% to 62%. https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/evtech.shtml
Worldwide fuel burning powerplant average efficiency is 33%
USA powerplant fuel burning efficiency average is possibly as high as 38%
(yes, the best NG powerplants can achieve 60% in ideal conditions)
National grid losses are about 7.5% https://www.eia.gov/electricity/state/
We also know that EV's, driven normally in mixed driving consume about 340WH per mile. NOTE: Cold weather and heat use/Hot weather and AC use dramatically affect consumption. The 340wh per mile number is relatively accurate in overall use. Yes, some EV owners consume 280 wh per mile. They live in temperate climates, drive slow and don't use heat or AC.
Interestingly, it seems to take 1.6 gallons of fuel oil to make enough power to charge an EV to go 40 highway miles.
More interestingly, in some locations, (once fees and taxes are added in) EV's cost considerably more per mile than gas vehicles.
The Chevy Volt, which can be operated either as a EV or as a gas only vehicle costs 10c/mile (locally) on electric power and 5.3c/mile on gas.
Originally Posted by Shannow
I know some bloke in the power industry who has been posting similar for a half decade, and gets labeled a buggy whipper, and not imagining an electric utopia.
Seems like one of those people who stops to think about the situation with regard to energy, comes to an accurate conclusion and provides good information.
I wonder what his thoughts are on battery cost per KWH....... As clearly a battery has a cost, a finite lifespan and just so many KWH can be extracted from it over it's life. We could break this down per KWH or per mile.....
The battery manufacturers do a lot of sandbagging, so the battery "seems" to retain it's capacity over a long period of time. But in reality, battery capacity is reduced slowly over both time and use. A Tesla owner I know recently got a replacement battery under warranty for his P85d. He's happy as they upgraded him to the 90KWH bat. But it seems obvious some Tesla owners are already having issues in heavy use.Originally Posted by SonofJoe
For what it's worth, I'm not some raving, Greenpeace flag waving loony! I drive a car like everyone else. I have electrical appliances in my house like everyone else & I've just come back off holiday, where I got on a 747.
However I'm going to get my first granddaughter in a few weeks time. When she's my age, it's going to be 2080. Even if the scientists are half right, the climate then is going to be very different from what it is today. I reckon I owe it to her to 'do something' to mitigate the effects of global warming. If that means foregoing the big BMW in favour of my tiny Suzuki, on my reckoning, that's a price worth paying. Ditto turning unnecessary lights off or not whacking up the thermostat on the central heating when it's just as easy (& a bit more cosy) to throw a blanket over yourselves.
This thread is funny... 5 pages of naval gazing about VW's production plans and disbelief that it's transitioning away from the ICE, all based on some belief that .000005% of trips made worldwide are going to keep the ICE alive... Newsflash: no manufacturer cares that you "need" 600 mile range to go on vacation, and VW really doesn't care since the US is such a small part of its overall business.
VW is currently selling almost 10 times as many cars in China than in the US. Why on earth would they really care that much about the US market? China is moving to EV's, so this is where they're focusing their development.
Hey, I love the combustion engine as much as the next guy, but it's dying. It's a matter of "when", not "if". Ending new ICE development in 2026 seems about right, though.
The EV companies could do themselves a world of good if they standardized on modular, quick change battery technologies.
Why is the paradigm you need to charge the battery that is in the car, if it can be quickly swapped out with a fully charged one?
7 minutes in the rest area at the battery swap station and you are off and running.
Much like propane tanks, a separate certifying agency can track the health of the batteries and remove the ones with subpar performance.
Originally Posted by simple_gifts
The EV companies could do themselves a world of good if they standardized on modular, quick change battery technologies.
Why is the paradigm you need to charge the battery that is in the car, if it can be quickly swapped out with a fully charged one?
7 minutes in the rest area at the battery swap station and you are off and running.
Much like propane tanks, a separate certifying agency can track the health of the batteries and remove the ones with subpar performance.
Originally Posted by Cujet
EV thoughts: Most of us consider the powerplant to grid to charger to battery, then from battery to motor to wheel,
conversion to have significant losses.
What's interesting is that we now know exactly how big the losses are, as the US Government publishes them!
EV Grid to wheel efficiency is 59% to 62%. https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/evtech.shtml
Worldwide fuel burning powerplant average efficiency is 33%
USA powerplant fuel burning efficiency average is possibly as high as 38%
(yes, the best NG powerplants can achieve 60% in ideal conditions)
National grid losses are about 7.5% https://www.eia.gov/electricity/state/
We also know that EV's, driven normally in mixed driving consume about 340WH per mile. NOTE: Cold weather and heat use/Hot weather and AC use dramatically affect consumption. The 340wh per mile number is relatively accurate in overall use. Yes, some EV owners consume 280 wh per mile. They live in temperate climates, drive slow and don't use heat or AC.
Interestingly, it seems to take 1.6 gallons of fuel oil to make enough power to charge an EV to go 40 highway miles.
More interestingly, in some locations, (once fees and taxes are added in) EV's cost considerably more per mile than gas vehicles.
The Chevy Volt, which can be operated either as a EV or as a gas only vehicle costs 10c/mile (locally) on electric power and 5.3c/mile on gas.
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Originally Posted by simple_gifts
The EV companies could do themselves a world of good if they standardized on modular, quick change battery technologies.
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