shocking...
MG Rover....1/13 ... that is pathetic.
MG Rover....1/13 ... that is pathetic.
VW/Audi Have Highest Engine Failure Rates
- Thread starter Nickdfresh
- Start date
- Status
K-engine head gaskets.... that's how you get 1/13
It would be nice to be able to pose a few questions to the author of this four-year-old article, but nothing in the company's results seems exceptional.
Originally Posted By: skyactiv
My wife and I could care less.
The failure rates are still pretty uncommon, it's all relative. Personally I'd exceed the OEM OCI's if I owned one though..
And document everything using the properly spec'd VW 50X.XX oil...
My wife and I could care less.
The failure rates are still pretty uncommon, it's all relative. Personally I'd exceed the OEM OCI's if I owned one though..
And document everything using the properly spec'd VW 50X.XX oil...
Originally Posted By: barryh
...
It's not that the Germans couldn't engineer a good reliable engine. Of course they could but not when they are forced into increased complexity and compromises in order to hit performance, mileage and emissions targets. It's things like direct injection and low friction single row timing chains that are causing them problems.
Again the classic joke about German engineering is, "why use four parts in something that runs perfectly well with four parts when you can use 16?"
...
It's not that the Germans couldn't engineer a good reliable engine. Of course they could but not when they are forced into increased complexity and compromises in order to hit performance, mileage and emissions targets. It's things like direct injection and low friction single row timing chains that are causing them problems.
Again the classic joke about German engineering is, "why use four parts in something that runs perfectly well with four parts when you can use 16?"
Originally Posted By: crazyoildude
It seems there are just as many class action Lawsuits against Honda and Toyota for engine issues..
Yet they seem to do fairly well here:
Originally Posted By: Nickdfresh
Engine reliability - top 10 brands according to Warranty Direct
1. Honda (failure rate: 1 in 344)
2. Toyota (failure rate: 1 in 171)
3. Mercedes-Benz (failure rate: 1 in 119)
4. Volvo (failure rate: 1 in 111)
5. Jaguar (failure rate: 1 in 103)
6. Lexus (failure rate: 1 in 101)
7. Fiat (failure rate: 1 in 85)
8. Ford (failure rate: 1 in 80)
9. Nissan (failure rate: 1 in 76)
10. Land Rover (failure rate: 1 in 72)
Engine reliability - bottom 10 brands according to Warranty Direct
1. MG Rover (failure rate: 1 in 13)
2. Audi (failure rate: 1 in 27)
3. Mini (failure rate: 1 in 40)
4. Saab (failure rate: 1 in 40)
5. Vauxhall (failure rate: 1 in 41)
6. Peugeot (failure rate: 1 in 44)
7. BMW (failure rate: 1 in 45)
8. Renault (failure rate: 1 in 46)
9. Volkswagen (failure rate: 1 in 52)
10. Mitsubishi (failure rate: 1 in 59)
It seems there are just as many class action Lawsuits against Honda and Toyota for engine issues..
Yet they seem to do fairly well here:
Originally Posted By: Nickdfresh
Engine reliability - top 10 brands according to Warranty Direct
1. Honda (failure rate: 1 in 344)
2. Toyota (failure rate: 1 in 171)
3. Mercedes-Benz (failure rate: 1 in 119)
4. Volvo (failure rate: 1 in 111)
5. Jaguar (failure rate: 1 in 103)
6. Lexus (failure rate: 1 in 101)
7. Fiat (failure rate: 1 in 85)
8. Ford (failure rate: 1 in 80)
9. Nissan (failure rate: 1 in 76)
10. Land Rover (failure rate: 1 in 72)
Engine reliability - bottom 10 brands according to Warranty Direct
1. MG Rover (failure rate: 1 in 13)
2. Audi (failure rate: 1 in 27)
3. Mini (failure rate: 1 in 40)
4. Saab (failure rate: 1 in 40)
5. Vauxhall (failure rate: 1 in 41)
6. Peugeot (failure rate: 1 in 44)
7. BMW (failure rate: 1 in 45)
8. Renault (failure rate: 1 in 46)
9. Volkswagen (failure rate: 1 in 52)
10. Mitsubishi (failure rate: 1 in 59)
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted By: SatinSilver
Originally Posted By: crazyoildude
It seems there are just as many class action Lawsuits against Honda and Toyota for engine issues..
Yet they seem to do fairly well here:
Originally Posted By: Nickdfresh
Engine reliability - top 10 brands according to Warranty Direct
1. Honda (failure rate: 1 in 344)
2. Toyota (failure rate: 1 in 171)
3. Mercedes-Benz (failure rate: 1 in 119)
4. Volvo (failure rate: 1 in 111)
5. Jaguar (failure rate: 1 in 103)
6. Lexus (failure rate: 1 in 101)
7. Fiat (failure rate: 1 in 85)
8. Ford (failure rate: 1 in 80)
9. Nissan (failure rate: 1 in 76)
10. Land Rover (failure rate: 1 in 72)
Engine reliability - bottom 10 brands according to Warranty Direct
1. MG Rover (failure rate: 1 in 13)
2. Audi (failure rate: 1 in 27)
3. Mini (failure rate: 1 in 40)
4. Saab (failure rate: 1 in 40)
5. Vauxhall (failure rate: 1 in 41)
6. Peugeot (failure rate: 1 in 44)
7. BMW (failure rate: 1 in 45)
8. Renault (failure rate: 1 in 46)
9. Volkswagen (failure rate: 1 in 52)
10. Mitsubishi (failure rate: 1 in 59)
So does Mercedes-Benz, who is right next to them. And I see Mitsubishi representing the Japanese in the bottom 10.
Originally Posted By: crazyoildude
It seems there are just as many class action Lawsuits against Honda and Toyota for engine issues..
Yet they seem to do fairly well here:
Originally Posted By: Nickdfresh
Engine reliability - top 10 brands according to Warranty Direct
1. Honda (failure rate: 1 in 344)
2. Toyota (failure rate: 1 in 171)
3. Mercedes-Benz (failure rate: 1 in 119)
4. Volvo (failure rate: 1 in 111)
5. Jaguar (failure rate: 1 in 103)
6. Lexus (failure rate: 1 in 101)
7. Fiat (failure rate: 1 in 85)
8. Ford (failure rate: 1 in 80)
9. Nissan (failure rate: 1 in 76)
10. Land Rover (failure rate: 1 in 72)
Engine reliability - bottom 10 brands according to Warranty Direct
1. MG Rover (failure rate: 1 in 13)
2. Audi (failure rate: 1 in 27)
3. Mini (failure rate: 1 in 40)
4. Saab (failure rate: 1 in 40)
5. Vauxhall (failure rate: 1 in 41)
6. Peugeot (failure rate: 1 in 44)
7. BMW (failure rate: 1 in 45)
8. Renault (failure rate: 1 in 46)
9. Volkswagen (failure rate: 1 in 52)
10. Mitsubishi (failure rate: 1 in 59)
So does Mercedes-Benz, who is right next to them. And I see Mitsubishi representing the Japanese in the bottom 10.
The VW/Audi cam eating alone could account for most of that.
Did Mazda disappear in these kinds of ratings?
Honda engines are twice as good as Toyota? Engine failure rates at 1 in 40 for VW? We ought to be hip deep in dead cars on the road with failure rates like that. Only way this is true is if the sampling is flawed (people willing to respond to a survey), or this is sampling whatever is dead in the junkyard (Asian vehicles tend to rot out early, getting junked for that and not outright engine failure--not always but often enough).
Or is this skewed because this company sells extended warranties to certain parties, parties who perhaps aren't known for vehicle maintenance?
*
Now, this survey is from "over there". Any chance that the tendency to run very long OCI's is a factor? The words make it sound like outright engine failure, and not the random bad plug, coil or gasket. 1 in 40 vehicles have an engine related issue before end of warranty period, ok perhaps that is true, for any and all causes; but I find the disparity between Honda & Toyota a bit of a stretch. [Then again, "over there" has different engine families than us, so there is that.]
Or is this skewed because this company sells extended warranties to certain parties, parties who perhaps aren't known for vehicle maintenance?
*
Now, this survey is from "over there". Any chance that the tendency to run very long OCI's is a factor? The words make it sound like outright engine failure, and not the random bad plug, coil or gasket. 1 in 40 vehicles have an engine related issue before end of warranty period, ok perhaps that is true, for any and all causes; but I find the disparity between Honda & Toyota a bit of a stretch. [Then again, "over there" has different engine families than us, so there is that.]
1 in 16 statistics are completely made up.
I bet the #1 source of engine failure is low/no oil. Best friend works at an oil change place (don't worry, family owned not Jiffy Lube) as a manager and he says the amount of cars they drain only a cup or two of oil out of is amazing.
Two of my friends own BMWs. The I-6 engines run great, and both have well over 100k miles on them. They do consume oil though. I change the oil on both of them (2005 e46 and a 2006 e90) at 5000-6000 miles. Usually have to add a quart of 0w40 Castrol during that time. I can imagine that at BMW's suggested 10k mile intervals, if one does not keep up on oil levels it can cause an issue with engines that consume more oil than these do.
My dad owned a 2009 Mercedes-Benz GL450 with the 4.6L V8 until 90k miles. It also consumed a bit of oil especially with long highway runs when we took it to Florida and back.
I do like Honda vehicles, my family currently owns 3 of them. I will say that out of all my friends and family, the only engine failures of the bunch have been a 2007 Honda Civic 1.8L, 2010 Honda Pilot 3.5L, and a 2003 GMC Duramax diesel. The Duramax was highly modified and owned by someone who doesn't check oil. The other two vehicles were dealer serviced. The 07 Civic had the block cracking issue and was replaced under warranty, the 2010 Pilot was just out of warranty and had a piston grenade.
I bet the #1 source of engine failure is low/no oil. Best friend works at an oil change place (don't worry, family owned not Jiffy Lube) as a manager and he says the amount of cars they drain only a cup or two of oil out of is amazing.
Two of my friends own BMWs. The I-6 engines run great, and both have well over 100k miles on them. They do consume oil though. I change the oil on both of them (2005 e46 and a 2006 e90) at 5000-6000 miles. Usually have to add a quart of 0w40 Castrol during that time. I can imagine that at BMW's suggested 10k mile intervals, if one does not keep up on oil levels it can cause an issue with engines that consume more oil than these do.
My dad owned a 2009 Mercedes-Benz GL450 with the 4.6L V8 until 90k miles. It also consumed a bit of oil especially with long highway runs when we took it to Florida and back.
I do like Honda vehicles, my family currently owns 3 of them. I will say that out of all my friends and family, the only engine failures of the bunch have been a 2007 Honda Civic 1.8L, 2010 Honda Pilot 3.5L, and a 2003 GMC Duramax diesel. The Duramax was highly modified and owned by someone who doesn't check oil. The other two vehicles were dealer serviced. The 07 Civic had the block cracking issue and was replaced under warranty, the 2010 Pilot was just out of warranty and had a piston grenade.
edyvw
$50 site donor 2025
LOL, what a statistic.
Personal experience:
5 VW's ( 2005 Passat made 106K, traded in for 2012 VW CC, traded in for BMW). In Europe had 2007 Skoda Octavia 1.9TDI, made 280k km before sold, and 2011 Skoda Octavia 1.9TDI made 220k km, before brother took it for his business. He on other hand has 16 VW's small commercial van's with 1.9tdi and 1.6tdi engines, all well above 200k km and keep going. No major issue son any of them, and as for my brothers car fleet, the are running almost 24/7.
Right now wife has Tiguan that is not driven a lot (5K a year last year, before that car was used more). Bought car with 32K. On my way from VA where I bought car to CA where I lived at that time, check engine light came on. Manifold had to be replaced under warranty. Now it has 63K and no issues since then (summer 2013).
I saw all kind of engine issues on VW's, BMW's etc. and one thing that is common to those engines are owners that showed utter neglect for a car.
Personal experience:
5 VW's ( 2005 Passat made 106K, traded in for 2012 VW CC, traded in for BMW). In Europe had 2007 Skoda Octavia 1.9TDI, made 280k km before sold, and 2011 Skoda Octavia 1.9TDI made 220k km, before brother took it for his business. He on other hand has 16 VW's small commercial van's with 1.9tdi and 1.6tdi engines, all well above 200k km and keep going. No major issue son any of them, and as for my brothers car fleet, the are running almost 24/7.
Right now wife has Tiguan that is not driven a lot (5K a year last year, before that car was used more). Bought car with 32K. On my way from VA where I bought car to CA where I lived at that time, check engine light came on. Manifold had to be replaced under warranty. Now it has 63K and no issues since then (summer 2013).
I saw all kind of engine issues on VW's, BMW's etc. and one thing that is common to those engines are owners that showed utter neglect for a car.
Did we ever get a definition of "engine failure"? Could it mean non routine maintenance repair or the replacement of non scheduled parts?
A long time ago I had a head gasket fail on a 79 Scirocco out of warranty. I redid the valves, surfaced the head and replaced the head gasket. I would not call that an engine failure.
If those numbers reflect traumatic engine failures I'd be very surprised. A shop owner down the street said he has not seen a engine failure involving a thrown rod through the crankcase in more than 10 years and that was a cooling system failure followed shortly by a lubrication failure.
A long time ago I had a head gasket fail on a 79 Scirocco out of warranty. I redid the valves, surfaced the head and replaced the head gasket. I would not call that an engine failure.
If those numbers reflect traumatic engine failures I'd be very surprised. A shop owner down the street said he has not seen a engine failure involving a thrown rod through the crankcase in more than 10 years and that was a cooling system failure followed shortly by a lubrication failure.
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
So does Mercedes-Benz, who is right next to them. And I see Mitsubishi representing the Japanese in the bottom 10.
Mitsubishi was using VW diesels at the time...
So does Mercedes-Benz, who is right next to them. And I see Mitsubishi representing the Japanese in the bottom 10.
Mitsubishi was using VW diesels at the time...
4WD
$50 site donor 2025
edyvw: lots of folks are skeptical of these surveys - especially when they are having good results with the make they choose and properly maintain ...
Wish we had more information on how each and every "survey" gets conducted ... but I think the catagory is flawed with "engine failure" -IMO - better off tracking un planned mechanical service as we do in the industrial sector ...
(Repair post failure)
Even then, a percentage lands on the "human" side - like when the wrong oil filter blows off ... how well will that one get reported ?
Wish we had more information on how each and every "survey" gets conducted ... but I think the catagory is flawed with "engine failure" -IMO - better off tracking un planned mechanical service as we do in the industrial sector ...
(Repair post failure)
Even then, a percentage lands on the "human" side - like when the wrong oil filter blows off ... how well will that one get reported ?
it won't...
the warranty companies aren't charities.
Any wear and tear isn't included, only repairs to the engine and auxiliaries will be. Stuff like bodged maintenance will quickly be denied for a claim.
the warranty companies aren't charities.
Any wear and tear isn't included, only repairs to the engine and auxiliaries will be. Stuff like bodged maintenance will quickly be denied for a claim.
4WD
$50 site donor 2025
Warranty? Will be a legal claim against a box store ?
Originally Posted By: 69GTX
Could those German cars being driven like mad on the Autobahns have something to do with this? It's a thought.
No.
Most Car owners here in Germany are thinking changing oil before 15.000 Km is a total waste of money and regular drive here cars on the Autobahn with 4.000 RPM + for long times, a alot of engines reaching 300.000 Km this way here.
But thats the old natural aspirated engines without all this Turbo, Kompressor and so on modern gimmicks that can - and will!- fail. And the Idea of german car manufacturers to stretch oil change intervalls to 30.000 km maybe was not the best idea.
My Suzuki GSXR 1100 now almost has reached the 100.000 KM mark, the engine still runs fine. This engine has seen a lot of us on the autobahn with constant RPM over 7.000. No problem...
Personally i think that short trips, winter use, a lot of cold starts and driving in town stop and go will stress the engine mor than a trip on the autobahn.
Could those German cars being driven like mad on the Autobahns have something to do with this? It's a thought.
No.
Most Car owners here in Germany are thinking changing oil before 15.000 Km is a total waste of money and regular drive here cars on the Autobahn with 4.000 RPM + for long times, a alot of engines reaching 300.000 Km this way here.
But thats the old natural aspirated engines without all this Turbo, Kompressor and so on modern gimmicks that can - and will!- fail. And the Idea of german car manufacturers to stretch oil change intervalls to 30.000 km maybe was not the best idea.
My Suzuki GSXR 1100 now almost has reached the 100.000 KM mark, the engine still runs fine. This engine has seen a lot of us on the autobahn with constant RPM over 7.000. No problem...
Personally i think that short trips, winter use, a lot of cold starts and driving in town stop and go will stress the engine mor than a trip on the autobahn.
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: barryh
I'm inclined to believe the data because it's real insurance claims for engine failures of one sort or another. There are several web sites dedicated to VW engine problems so it's no surprise to see them floundering in a reliability survey. Lexus and other Japanese makes always seem to be at the top which ever survey you read.
It's not that the Germans couldn't engineer a good reliable engine. Of course they could but not when they are forced into increased complexity and compromises in order to hit performance, mileage and emissions targets. It's things like direct injection and low friction single row timing chains that are causing them problems.
I believe it too. Probably not niggly problems since those wouldn't hit the radar of the third party warranty company. Don't know what it means for us, since different engines are sold there especially for economy models. But as with most things, the report is going to be most useful at the extremes.
I'm also struck by the spread of the sample. I would expect a few outliers and everyone else clumped together.
Does anyone know what an extended factory warranty costs on a VW?
I'm inclined to believe the data because it's real insurance claims for engine failures of one sort or another. There are several web sites dedicated to VW engine problems so it's no surprise to see them floundering in a reliability survey. Lexus and other Japanese makes always seem to be at the top which ever survey you read.
It's not that the Germans couldn't engineer a good reliable engine. Of course they could but not when they are forced into increased complexity and compromises in order to hit performance, mileage and emissions targets. It's things like direct injection and low friction single row timing chains that are causing them problems.
I believe it too. Probably not niggly problems since those wouldn't hit the radar of the third party warranty company. Don't know what it means for us, since different engines are sold there especially for economy models. But as with most things, the report is going to be most useful at the extremes.
I'm also struck by the spread of the sample. I would expect a few outliers and everyone else clumped together.
Does anyone know what an extended factory warranty costs on a VW?
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
