VW/Audi Have Highest Engine Failure Rates
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4WD
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It is certainly unplanned ...
However. Cost of ownership would include a new timing belt at 100k - cost of not doing that can be way more - and the fault of the owner.
However. Cost of ownership would include a new timing belt at 100k - cost of not doing that can be way more - and the fault of the owner.
Originally Posted By: jimbrewer
Originally Posted By: barryh
I'm inclined to believe the data because it's real insurance claims for engine failures of one sort or another. There are several web sites dedicated to VW engine problems so it's no surprise to see them floundering in a reliability survey. Lexus and other Japanese makes always seem to be at the top which ever survey you read.
It's not that the Germans couldn't engineer a good reliable engine. Of course they could but not when they are forced into increased complexity and compromises in order to hit performance, mileage and emissions targets. It's things like direct injection and low friction single row timing chains that are causing them problems.
I believe it too. Probably not niggly problems since those wouldn't hit the radar of the third party warranty company. Don't know what it means for us, since different engines are sold there especially for economy models. But as with most things, the report is going to be most useful at the extremes.
I'm also struck by the spread of the sample. I would expect a few outliers and everyone else clumped together.
Does anyone know what an extended factory warranty costs on a VW?
No extended factory warranties exist, however 3 years extra from a place like warranty direct would be about $1000.
Originally Posted By: barryh
I'm inclined to believe the data because it's real insurance claims for engine failures of one sort or another. There are several web sites dedicated to VW engine problems so it's no surprise to see them floundering in a reliability survey. Lexus and other Japanese makes always seem to be at the top which ever survey you read.
It's not that the Germans couldn't engineer a good reliable engine. Of course they could but not when they are forced into increased complexity and compromises in order to hit performance, mileage and emissions targets. It's things like direct injection and low friction single row timing chains that are causing them problems.
I believe it too. Probably not niggly problems since those wouldn't hit the radar of the third party warranty company. Don't know what it means for us, since different engines are sold there especially for economy models. But as with most things, the report is going to be most useful at the extremes.
I'm also struck by the spread of the sample. I would expect a few outliers and everyone else clumped together.
Does anyone know what an extended factory warranty costs on a VW?
No extended factory warranties exist, however 3 years extra from a place like warranty direct would be about $1000.
Originally Posted By: 4WD
edyvw: lots of folks are skeptical of these surveys - especially when they are having good results with the make they choose and properly maintain ...
Wish we had more information on how each and every "survey" gets conducted ... but I think the catagory is flawed with "engine failure" -IMO - better off tracking un planned mechanical service as we do in the industrial sector ...
(Repair post failure)
Even then, a percentage lands on the "human" side - like when the wrong oil filter blows off ... how well will that one get reported ?
Absolutely.
However, issue is that people are making shorter trips and fly. No time for long road trips etc. These moder cars actually prefer that, long trips.
When I bought BMW my mother and father in law (just to give you an idea what kind of drivers are they. I used their Lexus and pressed foot parking brake. They own that Lexus for 10 years. He wanted to use car, comes back to house and asks me where did I press parking brake). So I get BMW, and they are: oooooo, our friends had one, and transmission failed, and they used it only to go to church! I said: well that is why it failed. But they still cannot understand that cars work best when you use them what they are made for.
edyvw: lots of folks are skeptical of these surveys - especially when they are having good results with the make they choose and properly maintain ...
Wish we had more information on how each and every "survey" gets conducted ... but I think the catagory is flawed with "engine failure" -IMO - better off tracking un planned mechanical service as we do in the industrial sector ...
(Repair post failure)
Even then, a percentage lands on the "human" side - like when the wrong oil filter blows off ... how well will that one get reported ?
Absolutely.
However, issue is that people are making shorter trips and fly. No time for long road trips etc. These moder cars actually prefer that, long trips.
When I bought BMW my mother and father in law (just to give you an idea what kind of drivers are they. I used their Lexus and pressed foot parking brake. They own that Lexus for 10 years. He wanted to use car, comes back to house and asks me where did I press parking brake). So I get BMW, and they are: oooooo, our friends had one, and transmission failed, and they used it only to go to church! I said: well that is why it failed. But they still cannot understand that cars work best when you use them what they are made for.
4WD
$50 site donor 2024
That's me - soft on cars (not so soft off road) and the domestic stuff holds up well for me. Long ? I will fly for sure ...
The worst car owner I have seen lately was a young guy who bolts on cat back system and induction on a economy car and thinks it an AMG now ... then it runs rough and stuff - comes in and complains the dealer would not work on it with the induction messed up. Told him to save up for a BMW
The worst car owner I have seen lately was a young guy who bolts on cat back system and induction on a economy car and thinks it an AMG now ... then it runs rough and stuff - comes in and complains the dealer would not work on it with the induction messed up. Told him to save up for a BMW
As usual, this article is much about nothing and as expected plenty have swallowed the bait.
Japanese have a really tough time penetrating Euro market, even Koreans are beating them, it's pretty obvious that nobody across the pond is buying their reliability claims, but that will not stop the paid off shills to try and sell this nonsense.
Japanese have a really tough time penetrating Euro market, even Koreans are beating them, it's pretty obvious that nobody across the pond is buying their reliability claims, but that will not stop the paid off shills to try and sell this nonsense.
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
As usual, this article is much about nothing and as expected plenty have swallowed the bait.
Japanese have a really tough time penetrating Euro market, even Koreans are beating them, it's pretty obvious that nobody across the pond is buying their reliability claims, but that will not stop the paid off shills to try and sell this nonsense.
It is not only that they have problem selling cars, they have serious reliability problems. Who can forget such "marvels" like Toyota D-CAT, Toyota 1.4 D-4D that apparently could only work using pure diesel made in sterile laboratory. Not to mention that their parts in Europe cost arm and leg. As soon as they have to make engine that has current technology they get into all kind of trouble. But when it comes to selling 20 year old technology to Americans, they are best, no question about that.
As usual, this article is much about nothing and as expected plenty have swallowed the bait.
Japanese have a really tough time penetrating Euro market, even Koreans are beating them, it's pretty obvious that nobody across the pond is buying their reliability claims, but that will not stop the paid off shills to try and sell this nonsense.
It is not only that they have problem selling cars, they have serious reliability problems. Who can forget such "marvels" like Toyota D-CAT, Toyota 1.4 D-4D that apparently could only work using pure diesel made in sterile laboratory. Not to mention that their parts in Europe cost arm and leg. As soon as they have to make engine that has current technology they get into all kind of trouble. But when it comes to selling 20 year old technology to Americans, they are best, no question about that.
Not surprised with VW/Audi.
I think VW and Audi have their niggles, based on anecdotes I've heard over time. The emissions scandal is another one "in the bag," so to speak.
The failure rates implied by this survey are ridiculous. I rarely see vehicles broken down on the side of the road, no matter whether VW/Audi, Ford or Holden, "Rice burners" or other Euro vehicles.
The failure rates implied by this survey are ridiculous. I rarely see vehicles broken down on the side of the road, no matter whether VW/Audi, Ford or Holden, "Rice burners" or other Euro vehicles.
4WD
$50 site donor 2024
But wait - check out Audi on the Consumer Reports chart ...
Originally Posted By: 4WD
But wait - check out Audi on the Consumer Reports chart ...
They are doing quite well as of late. An after market warranty picks up pieces once car makers powertrain one is over. Audi is great but I am too chicken to own one out of warranty.....
But wait - check out Audi on the Consumer Reports chart ...
They are doing quite well as of late. An after market warranty picks up pieces once car makers powertrain one is over. Audi is great but I am too chicken to own one out of warranty.....
4WD
$50 site donor 2024
That's the thing about Toyota - I don't buy them but easy to see a problem here or there - scattered over time ...
but so many cars of late are just what you said - "doing better now" ...
So is Impala - but they have a long road to recover from past history - American's are slow to forgive their own ...
but so many cars of late are just what you said - "doing better now" ...
So is Impala - but they have a long road to recover from past history - American's are slow to forgive their own ...
Originally Posted By: edyvw
However, issue is that people are making shorter trips and fly. No time for long road trips etc. These moder cars actually prefer that, long trips.
When I bought BMW my mother and father in law (just to give you an idea what kind of drivers are they. I used their Lexus and pressed foot parking brake. They own that Lexus for 10 years. He wanted to use car, comes back to house and asks me where did I press parking brake). So I get BMW, and they are: oooooo, our friends had one, and transmission failed, and they used it only to go to church! I said: well that is why it failed. But they still cannot understand that cars work best when you use them what they are made for.
Short trips don't kill transmissions.
However, issue is that people are making shorter trips and fly. No time for long road trips etc. These moder cars actually prefer that, long trips.
When I bought BMW my mother and father in law (just to give you an idea what kind of drivers are they. I used their Lexus and pressed foot parking brake. They own that Lexus for 10 years. He wanted to use car, comes back to house and asks me where did I press parking brake). So I get BMW, and they are: oooooo, our friends had one, and transmission failed, and they used it only to go to church! I said: well that is why it failed. But they still cannot understand that cars work best when you use them what they are made for.
Short trips don't kill transmissions.
Originally Posted By: clinebarger
Originally Posted By: edyvw
However, issue is that people are making shorter trips and fly. No time for long road trips etc. These moder cars actually prefer that, long trips.
When I bought BMW my mother and father in law (just to give you an idea what kind of drivers are they. I used their Lexus and pressed foot parking brake. They own that Lexus for 10 years. He wanted to use car, comes back to house and asks me where did I press parking brake). So I get BMW, and they are: oooooo, our friends had one, and transmission failed, and they used it only to go to church! I said: well that is why it failed. But they still cannot understand that cars work best when you use them what they are made for.
Short trips don't kill transmissions.
What about them? I would say they are doing far better then average, especially those with ZF.
Now a lot of consumers had issue with dual clutch gear boxes (which is not automatic) and concept of maintaining the gear box.
By the way, short trip do kill transmissions.
Originally Posted By: edyvw
However, issue is that people are making shorter trips and fly. No time for long road trips etc. These moder cars actually prefer that, long trips.
When I bought BMW my mother and father in law (just to give you an idea what kind of drivers are they. I used their Lexus and pressed foot parking brake. They own that Lexus for 10 years. He wanted to use car, comes back to house and asks me where did I press parking brake). So I get BMW, and they are: oooooo, our friends had one, and transmission failed, and they used it only to go to church! I said: well that is why it failed. But they still cannot understand that cars work best when you use them what they are made for.
Short trips don't kill transmissions.
What about them? I would say they are doing far better then average, especially those with ZF.
Now a lot of consumers had issue with dual clutch gear boxes (which is not automatic) and concept of maintaining the gear box.
By the way, short trip do kill transmissions.
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: dishdude
Originally Posted By: edyvw
By the way, short trip do kill transmissions.
This I gotta hear. Go on...
So basically argument is that short rips or long trips, it does not matter for transmission?
Good to know!
Originally Posted By: edyvw
By the way, short trip do kill transmissions.
This I gotta hear. Go on...
So basically argument is that short rips or long trips, it does not matter for transmission?
Good to know!
There is a problem with VWs Group powertrains. There was /is a number of engine families with serious faults. Just to name few:
2.0 PD 140 hp, cylinder head prone to cracking. Design fault, later changed.
2.0 TGSI oil consumption, even with VW approved oils with shorter than standard OCIs.
2.0 common rail, injectors fault. It would leave you by the end of the road. Apparently, VW only changed one at the time.
1.6 TDI , injectors fault, not as common as 2.0, but not sporadic either.
1.4 turbo/compressor, too many design flaws to mention. Abandoned desige.
1.4 16v atmospheric unit, many went south before reaching 150k.
Than there is BMWs distribution chain problems on 9x series.
PSA 1.6 16v,109 hp HDI turbo /oil feed pipe fault. Redesigned afterwards to 8v unit.
Renault 1.5 DCI(early ones) were terrible.
Ford Puma 2.2 used in PSA group were utter rubbish, burning holes in pistons wasn't uncommon (injector faults).
FIAT Multiair (early ones) were rubbish, lot of failures.
Toyota D4D head gasket. Engines were redesigned afterwards.
2.0 PD 140 hp, cylinder head prone to cracking. Design fault, later changed.
2.0 TGSI oil consumption, even with VW approved oils with shorter than standard OCIs.
2.0 common rail, injectors fault. It would leave you by the end of the road. Apparently, VW only changed one at the time.
1.6 TDI , injectors fault, not as common as 2.0, but not sporadic either.
1.4 turbo/compressor, too many design flaws to mention. Abandoned desige.
1.4 16v atmospheric unit, many went south before reaching 150k.
Than there is BMWs distribution chain problems on 9x series.
PSA 1.6 16v,109 hp HDI turbo /oil feed pipe fault. Redesigned afterwards to 8v unit.
Renault 1.5 DCI(early ones) were terrible.
Ford Puma 2.2 used in PSA group were utter rubbish, burning holes in pistons wasn't uncommon (injector faults).
FIAT Multiair (early ones) were rubbish, lot of failures.
Toyota D4D head gasket. Engines were redesigned afterwards.
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I stopped when I got to Saab, then I looked at the date this was published.
As far as the UK is concerned, or Scotland at least where I used to live, there's a lot more VW, Skoda and SEATs on the road than Toyota or Honda. You'd be lucky to see a Lexus or two, whereas Mercedes-Benz, BMW and Audi is a lot more common - especially their diesel variants. Given that alone, I'm pretty sure there will be a lot more German cars coming in the shop than Asian.
Also, how old are those cars? If a new car has a defect, I'm pretty sure I'd be going to an authorized dealership to address my concerns - not a third party I bought a "warranty package" from to cover it.
As far as the UK is concerned, or Scotland at least where I used to live, there's a lot more VW, Skoda and SEATs on the road than Toyota or Honda. You'd be lucky to see a Lexus or two, whereas Mercedes-Benz, BMW and Audi is a lot more common - especially their diesel variants. Given that alone, I'm pretty sure there will be a lot more German cars coming in the shop than Asian.
Also, how old are those cars? If a new car has a defect, I'm pretty sure I'd be going to an authorized dealership to address my concerns - not a third party I bought a "warranty package" from to cover it.
I can vouch firsthand that VW/Audi have unreliable engines. Nice, but unreliable. With a recent oil change in spec and everything up to date, my 2.0 FSI engine in a 2006 A3 failed with 130,000mi on it. It's tempting if you like the car to excuse any amount of data showing the unreliable or problematic nature of the cars but there you go. Multiple engines in other cars in the family trucking along happily on any type of oil and my A3 fails with the vaunted M1 0w-40 in the sump. Go figure - it really must be more about engine design/materials than oil in some cases.
4WD
$50 site donor 2024
Engines that are so darn oil picky are often called technology marvels - however there are still awesome and fast pushrod engines around us all ... and can go forever off a dozen motor oils ...
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