Virgin EcoGard X4651 C&P

[blupupher]

Well, Airgunsavant got me curious about these EcoGard filters, only $1.86 (on both Amazon and Walmart.com). I ordered 2 (Walmart required 2 to be ordered), which is fine, one to cut open and one to use on the F150. So here it is. Nothing special here: simple date code. 9 Months since date of manufacture: Nice that filter interchange is on filter itself. We also see "Made in China", but not a surprise. Cellophane covering to keep dirt out? Spiral center tube with holes: All apart: Button style bypass: Nitrile ADV, soft and pliable, nothing special: Crimped seam, spacing not bad: ~ 1 5/8" of media height: ~ 86" long A view with the media off: And then we look inside the can: Oily feeling rust wipes off, leaving a lot inside: 13.2 oz: 6.5 oz for just base plate: So, I know this really tells us nothing about the efficiency, not listed on the box, just says "Manufactured in accordance with ISO/TS:16949" and "Meets the requirements for maintaining new vehicle warranties". So a rock catcher at worst, since some OEM is ~ 99% @ 50 microns. Maybe it is better, but no idea. Maybe I will email them. I was surprised to see the rust inside the can, especially since it had the cellophane covering the end. Maybe it held moisture in?? I will use the other filter I have, but will not be buying any more of these. I also looked at their Synthetic filters; I was considering one of those as a Tough Guard alternative since they are < $5, but not sure now. Just for comparison, here is a Virgin Mobil 1 M1-210A and Motorcraft FL820s to compare it too. This filter seems a little shorter than these others (I threw them out about 3 weeks ago, wish I had kept them), but not positive.

 

[ZeeOSix]

That rust inside the can isn't good ... and nobody would ever know unless they cut open the filter.

 

[Hootbro]

Where is the corresponding staining on the tapping plate? Not convinced it is true rust or is just some residue left over from the assembly process.

 

[blupupher]

Yup. I don't think I have ever seen one with this much rust. A few with specs here and there inside, but not 1/3 of the can. I did send an e-mail to them regarding both the efficiency of the filter as well as a pic of the rust in the filter. I will reply with what (if anything) they say. HootBro, so what residue used during manufacturing would cause this? It looks like rust, feels like rust, tastes like rust (no, I did not taste it). It does not totally wipe off. It does feel a little "oily" on the top, but the sides feels like dried rust and just does not wipe off. I don't know why it is 1/3 up the can with nothing in the very center top. Very odd pattern I agree. It is not something I would like to have in a filter regardless, especially not knowing the filtering efficiency. The more I think about it, I am probably not going to keep the second one. I will just return it and buy ST filters. Only $1 more and I trust the quality of Wix.

 

[goodtimes]

Toyota filters have a small hole punched in the plastic shrink wrap. They say leak tested. I wonder if it is from that, there can be water in air lines. I have seen it flow out like a garden hose at a gas station. They squirt the air in the center tube and it sort of would hit like that I think. Just a possibility.

 

[Sayjac]

'If' that is rust 'as noted', all I can say is...wow. It does look like it. Also if true, it would seem the cello seal not doing much. As for filter, excluding the rusty looking area the filter looks pretty well made. It would be the same as the other China coo jobber filter anecdotes posted here. In short, look solidly made, unknown/unpublished efficiency. In this case though, tough to get past that exclusion. Thanks for c&p.

 

[blupupher]

Well, I e-mailed them about it and got a response. Basics is they said it looks like they had a problem with the device that sprays the corrosion inhibitor. So this explains why only the bottom 2/3 was fine and the top was rusty (I am guessing the coil spring had some on it so it kept the very top of the can from rusting). He sent me some pics of one with a December date on it cut open and it looked fine (not that he would send me one that looked bad). Filtering efficacy on the Premium filter (cellulose media) is 98.8% > 30 microns, 87.97 > 20 microns. For their Synthetic+ (Cellulose/synthetic blend with silicone ADV), 99.9% > 30 microns, 97.22 > 20. My initial e-mail to them:

Quote:

Do you have a published efficiency rating for your oil filters? Most filters have it on their box, if not at least on their website. I cannot find it anywhere for either your regular filters or the synthetic filters. Just as an example, Fram lists their Extra Guard to be 95% on particles > 20 microns, the Ultra Synthetic is 99%+ > 20 Microns. Do you have any data to compare this with? Another thing is I bought 2 X4651 from Walmart. The date code was 9/16/16. I was curious to their construction, so I cut one open. I was surprised to see a lot of rust inside the can. Not something I have ever seen in many filters i have cut open (new and used). I am hesitant to use the other filter I have, and was considering trying your synthetic filters, but after finding this, I am not sure. I have attached a picture of it. If you want to see more pictures, you can read this online post where I posted more pictures. https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4430599#Post4430599 Thank You, I look forward to your response, Blu

Here is the e-mail reply from Matt, the marketing manager for IPC Global Solutions:

Quote:

Thank you for your message and for reviewing the product on the forum you participate in on-line. Regarding efficiency, our blue ECOGARD Premium Oil Filter is 98.8% efficient > 30um and 87.97% efficient > 20um. Our black Synthetic+ oil filter is 99.9% efficient > 30um and 97.22% efficient > 20um. As you can tell from the breakdown you put together this is a well thought out and designed product and has been in the field for almost a decade with an excellent reputation with customers. We use a spiral wound steel center tube and metal end caps on the cartridge to enhance the strength and performance of our oil filter. We use an extra thick can for structural integrity. Unfortunately, you did detect oxidization on the inside of the can on the dirty side of the filter (any oxidation that comes loose will be filtered before entering the engine). This is likely the result of break down in an assembly process where the inside of the can is treated with a rust preventer. After the can is treated it then must be finished in a short window of time. It’s likely in this instance the can was not finished in the time window required. We will conduct a corrective action in our plant and permanently resolve this problem that you have brought to our attention. We have a robust quality team in the U.S.A. and in our plant and we’ve made hundreds of millions of high quality oil filters – this is something that will be fixed. I’ve attached a picture of the same model X4651 from lot code 12/24/16 91. As you can see, the inside of the can is in excellent condition and does not show any signs of oxidization. Thank you for the analysis and for bringing this issue to our attention. Please send me your address and I will replace these filters free of charge.

And I also did a follow up with them with a few more questions:

Quote:

Happy to be of help to you. A few answers for you: Is the media a cellulose, cellulose blend or synthetic (in the Synthetic+)? ECOGARD Blue Premium Filter – Cellulose Media ECOGARD Synthetic+ - Cellulose and Synthetic Blend Media I am guessing a cellulose for the Premium and blend for the Synthetic+? Right on! Is the anti drain back valve in the Synthetic + silicone as other premium filters are? Yes – Silicone (orange color) Do you have any of those cut apart that you could send me a few pictures of? I will send you some photos and a few freebies later today. Thanks for your timely response and information on this. Is it OK if I copy and paste your response on the forum that I reviewed it on? Yes, of course. One other question I have always had, the filters (and others) say "100% Leak tested". How is that done, just using air pressure and a setup that the filter is screwed on to? Depends on the particular production line the product is assembled on. In our plant we have leak testing via air for higher volume products and via water for lower volume products. Most filter manufacturers have a similar setup. Thanks again for this opportunity and please let me know if you have any additional questions.

 

[Sayjac]

That's interesting efficiency information, though 'for me' I'd like to see it published on the box and/or posted on their website along with the ISO test procedure used, ie,. the industry standard 4548-12. As for the "dirty side" explanation, it's a nice one. And it 'may' have been filtered in that case. Of course that wouldn't include if the filter was in bypass. While the latter happens infrequently, it is a possibility. Lastly I'd just add 'from my observation', if this was another filter brand, IMO the filter would have been seriously flogged for the large area of rust in the dome. My .02

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: blupupher

Here is the e-mail reply from Matt, the marketing manager for IPC Global Solutions: Thank you for your message and for reviewing the product on the forum you participate in on-line. Regarding efficiency, our blue ECOGARD Premium Oil Filter is 98.8% efficient > 30um and 87.97% efficient > 20um. Our black Synthetic+ oil filter is 99.9% efficient > 30um and 97.22% efficient > 20um. As you can tell from the breakdown you put together this is a well thought out and designed product and has been in the field for almost a decade with an excellent reputation with customers. We use a spiral wound steel center tube and metal end caps on the cartridge to enhance the strength and performance of our oil filter. We use an extra thick can for structural integrity. Unfortunately, you did detect oxidization on the inside of the can on the dirty side of the filter (any oxidation that comes loose will be filtered before entering the engine). This is likely the result of break down in an assembly process where the inside of the can is treated with a rust preventer. After the can is treated it then must be finished in a short window of time. It’s likely in this instance the can was not finished in the time window required. We will conduct a corrective action in our plant and permanently resolve this problem that you have brought to our attention. We have a robust quality team in the U.S.A. and in our plant and we’ve made hundreds of millions of high quality oil filters – this is something that will be fixed. I’ve attached a picture of the same model X4651 from lot code 12/24/16 91. As you can see, the inside of the can is in excellent condition and does not show any signs of oxidization.

Sounds like that company takes their quality seriously ... unlike a certain other company known to have major quality issues around here.

 

[Nyogtha]

^^^ Not seriously enough to keep these rusty filters off the market to begin with. Glad I've stashed Wix and Fram made CQ Blues, Fram Ultras, & pre-"A" suffix Mobil 1 filters for my household's foreseeable future.

 

[Hootbro]

Originally Posted By: blupupher

................ HootBro, so what residue used during manufacturing would cause this? ...............

Disregard what I said earlier. I got on a better computer monitor and was fixated on the staining by the cut edge and not what was inside the can dome end which initially looked liked typical metal distortion from cold forming. Looks like rust to me now that I have a better look at it.

 

[blupupher]

Originally Posted By: Sayjac

That's interesting efficiency information, though 'for me' I'd like to see it published on the box and/or posted on their website along with the ISO test procedure used, ie,. the industry standard 4548-12.

Apparently they are reading this thread. I just got this e-mail from him today:

Originally Posted By: Matt @ IPC Global Solutions

Hi, Just wanted to let you know that our test standard is ISO 4548-12, if you’d like to pass that on to the guys in the forum. Regards, Matt

I do agree it needs to be more readily available. Have it on the website at least, or just be upfront and put it on the box. They are not the only ones though. I know Wix is hard to get exact numbers from. I have never e-mailed them about it though, this is just from what others have said. Wix does have some basic numbers on the filter info web page.

Originally Posted By: Sayjac

As for the "dirty side" explanation, it's a nice one. And it 'may' have been filtered in that case. Of course that wouldn't include if the filter was in bypass. While the latter happens infrequently, it is a possibility. Lastly I'd just add 'from my observation', if this was another filter brand, IMO the filter would have been seriously flogged for the large area of rust in the dome. My .02

I agree. Probably no problem from the rust unless you are changing the oil when it is well below freezing. I still would not be happy if I cut the filter open after use and found it. I think part of the reason there is no so much flack about it is the cost and COO for this filter. People say "you spent $1.80 on a filter made in China, what did you expect". If you bought a "mainstream" filter for 2-5x the price, you expect more.

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix

Sounds like that company takes their quality seriously ... unlike a certain other company known to have major quality issues around here.

I agree. We have seen so many problems with Purolator tears and ADV issues, the company has been notified and known about it for over 5 years. Yet we still see the same issues and no response from them. I decided I am going to give these filters a chance, primarily because of their quick response to the e-mail and acknowledging a problem. I will be trying one of their Synthetic+ filters on my sisters Santa Fe. It won't be any worse than the torn Purolator made filter I took off. Edit: Maybe not, the S4612 for her engine is priced @ $11.33 on both Walmart & Amazon. Last TG I bought for her was ~$6. I can get an Ultra for ~$9. If they drop back down to the ~$4.50 range I will try one. There are still some of the Synthetic+ in the $4.50 range, but several that are not.

Originally Posted By: Nyogtha

^^^ Not seriously enough to keep these rusty filters off the market to begin with. Glad I've stashed Wix and Fram made CQ Blues, Fram Ultras, & pre-"A" suffix Mobil 1 filters for my household's foreseeable future.

But we don't have enough data to know if this was an isolated incident or is a common issue. Look at the Fram that was posted here a few months ago missing 1/3 of the pleats. An isolated incident. If that was the first one cut open, you would hear all kinds of trash talking (even though there was some). In this case, we have hundreds, if not thousands of other Frams posted have not had this issue. I do agree I wish I had more of the Wix/Fram made CQ filters (Blue or even the Fram made Red). They were only about $0.60 more than these when they were cleared out.

Originally Posted By: Hootbro

Disregard what I said earlier. I got on a better computer monitor and was fixated on the staining by the cut edge and not what was inside the can dome end which initially looked liked typical metal distortion from cold forming. Looks like rust to me now that I have a better look at it.

No problem LOL. I think that stuff around the cut edge is oil residue that came off the oil cutter blade.

 

[Sayjac]

Quote:

...I do agree it needs to be more readily available. Have it on the website at least, or just be upfront and put it on the box.....

Agreed on that. Seems odd too since they seem to have no problem putting an ISO build/quality spec on their website, but no efficiency spec at all. And seeing the result here I'd have to say for whatever that's worth. Interesting, they got back after I listed the ISO efficiency spec. When I see it published as noted, I'll take it as authoritative, until then, 'for me' not so much.

Quote:

But we don't have enough data to know if this was an isolated incident or is a common issue.

Safe to say imo though that this wasn't the sole filter in this lot 'at the very least', that got past QC in this condition. That said, as long you're satisfied it works for you. For me, not a filter I'd chase.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: Sayjac

Agreed on that. Seems odd too since they seem to have no problem putting an ISO build/quality spec on their website, but no efficiency spec at all.

Perhaps some other filter manufacturers would do better to follow suit, rather than trumpeting efficiency numbers that don't hold when the media is torn.

 

[Sayjac]

Quote:

Originally Posted By: Sayjac

Agreed on that. Seems odd too since they seem to have no problem putting an ISO build/quality spec on their website, but no efficiency spec at all............

Perhaps some other filter manufacturers would do better to follow suit, rather than trumpeting efficiency numbers that don't hold when the media is torn...

Since you mention it, perhaps you should take that up with them. As a purchaser though, if one doesn't like how a particular manufacturer deals with any part of their manufacturing process and procedures, use another brand. Since it's my money, it's what I do.

 

[Garak]

If they haven't been listening to what's been going on in general on this site, other sites, complaints to them, and so forth, they're sure as heck not going to listen to me.

 

[Sayjac]

Clearly then your previous post in which you quoted me was purely rhetorical. Thus my response in kind. Again main point, the answer as previously noted is simple...use another brand.

 

[GMBoy]

I am impressed with the time taken by the filter manufacturer to address the questions and concerns. The rust is on the "dirty side" and won't hurt anything and I bet this is common across other filter brands as well. The filter looks good, priced good and has what seems to be a good quality control group making it. I never heard of them before, but I am going to buy a few and try them out. I like the due care of the cellophane over the filter end as well. A good filter doesn't have to say Fram, Wix or whatever on the can.

 

[Triple_Se7en]

Originally Posted By: blupupher

Nothing special here:

You were expecting something special for $1.86? BTW.... that's a terrific buy for someone purchasing value-priced nitrile filters. I only buy silicone and run them 2X6K...... USA if possible.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: Sayjac

Again main point, the answer as previously noted is simple...use another brand.

I have been, for most of my life, in fact. Realistically, it can take a fair bit of effort to get a legitimate Purolator here. Getting something built by them isn't quite as hard.