Virgin EcoGard X4651 C&P

[blupupher]

Originally Posted By: Triple_Se7en

Originally Posted By: blupupher

Nothing special here:

You were expecting something special for $1.86? BTW.... that's a terrific buy for someone purchasing value-priced nitrile filters. I only buy silicone and run them 2X6K...... USA if possible.

I was refering to the can itself being nothing special. No grippy stuff on the outside, no dents and such. Just an oil filter like all the others. Got another e-mail from Matt:

Originally Posted By: Matt

Hi Blu, Just following up again on the forum posting – yes, of course we are reading along! We care a lot about the quality of our products and we care equally as much about how customers feel about them. We want customers to have an excellent experience with our filters. We know if they do, they will come back. So feedback like the forum provides is really important to us. We thank you and the rest of the posters for their commentary and analysis. Regarding the efficiency numbers not on the website or box, we understand this point clearly. Our brand, ECOGARD was built for the B2B market and we’ve prioritized cross references and ISO build/quality statements over performance metrics. The B2B market just expects you have good performance metrics – you wouldn’t be considered if you didn’t. If you look at our B2B competitors you will see that is common in the B2B market. However, some of our distributors are pushing our brand into the DIY and retail markets. This is an exciting development for us and the feedback we are receiving from these forum posts is driving active conversations about how to bring these metrics into a more prominent position on our website and on our box. I think in the next few months we will incorporate a few changes to provide the information more clearly to those in the DIY market that are interested. Hope you and the folks on this forum have a great Father’s Day weekend. Matt

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: GMBoy

I am impressed with the time taken by the filter manufacturer to address the questions and concerns. The rust is on the "dirty side" and won't hurt anything and I bet this is common across other filter brands as well.

Not common at all. If it was, there would have been instances seen here with all the cut & posting of oil filters. If there was rust inside the can, even a filter cut open after a full use cycle on the engine would show signs inside the can that rust was present.

 

[WellOiled]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix

Originally Posted By: GMBoy

I am impressed with the time taken by the filter manufacturer to address the questions and concerns. The rust is on the "dirty side" and won't hurt anything and I bet this is common across other filter brands as well.

Not common at all. If it was, there would have been instances seen here with all the cut & posting of oil filters. If there was rust inside the can, even a filter cut open after a full use cycle on the engine would show signs inside the can that rust was present.

Zee - Rust does occur even on name brand stuff. Filter with rust

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: WellOiled

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix

Originally Posted By: GMBoy

I am impressed with the time taken by the filter manufacturer to address the questions and concerns. The rust is on the "dirty side" and won't hurt anything and I bet this is common across other filter brands as well.

Not common at all. If it was, there would have been instances seen here with all the cut & posting of oil filters. If there was rust inside the can, even a filter cut open after a full use cycle on the engine would show signs inside the can that rust was present.

Zee - Rust does occur even on name brand stuff. Filter with rust

Yes ... but it's not a common. Rarely seen on the multitudes of cut & posted filters here.

 

[WellOiled]

ZeeOSix - It may be easily missed on a used filter cut & post. I previously thought it was excess glue but when things are dried up,any rust is more obvious. I have another FL820S in the stash with a small amount of rust on the dome end cap inside the center tube. The truth is likely somewhere between common and uncommon. Another Purolator feature?

 

[WellOiled]

blupupher - This is an excellent thread. Thanks for the cut & post. I admire EcoGard for listening and interacting with the customer. It does seem they are interested in delivering a quality product.

 

[Tony10s]

Originally Posted By: WellOiled

blupupher - This is an excellent thread. Thanks for the cut & post. I admire EcoGard for listening and interacting with the customer. It does seem they are interested in delivering a quality product.

+1 .... ECOGARD Oil Filters are solidly built. I have used them before and I was impressed with their construction. They are built like tanks. The can and baseplate are very heavy. The media is strong with nice straight pleats and even spacing. I would like to try out the synthetic filters some time. I also appreciate their commitment to quality and the way they handled this situation ... the way they interacted with the customer is admirable. Yes, this is an excellent thread ... thank you blupupher.

 

[blupupher]

So, I received a little package yesterday from Matt at Ecogard: 4 filters (2 regular and 2 Synthetic): 2 t-shirts (daughter is wearing one of them right now): And 2 tote bags: I have to say I am impressed with their response. Next day response to the e-mail, from an actual person. Addressed my concern and answered my questions. Made it right by sending me replacement (and then some). They are definitely on my list of filters to use. The only real drawback is availability, I have to plan and order online. For most changes, that will not be a problem, but for the occasional "do the oil change today" for a friend or family, I won't have them. Since they sent 2 Synthetic filters, I decided to cut one open, here is the thread for it. I was not going to mention it for a while, but I had e-mailed Purolator over a month ago about 2 filters I have cut open. They both had tears (I sent pics and included links to the forum posts here) with no response.

 

[AirgunSavant]

Baldwin never got back to me at all on their defects. Nice to see they care!!!

 

[blupupher]

OK, so another update on this. I was planning on swapping this filter on my truck (current ST2 filter only has ~1600 miles on it) just to use it and cut it apart in 3000 or so miles. Since I was not doing an oil change on the truck, I was prefilling the filter some (I add oil till the center tube is full then let it soak into the media, allowing me to install it without spilling oil). Anyhow, as I was letting the oil soak into the media, I turned the filter onto it's side and sat it on the workbench. Now when I added oil, I used a funnel, so absolutely no oil spilled out, and I did not fill it so full it leaked out the hole. After about 30 seconds, I see oil on the outside of the base plate: It is not coming out the ADV, inlet or outlet holes. I look closer and see a space that it has collected in, and it runs around the whole can (highlighted in yellow): Apparently these base plates are 2 piece. I get the base plate from the original filter I had cut open (kept it this time) and tear into it. Seems these have a few spot welds to hold the 2 pieces together, but it is not "sealed". Not sure if the crimp on the side that attaches the can to the base plate is supposed to seal it or what: So it looks like it is leaking from the area in yellow below to the outside, basically bypassing the ADV, letting oil drain back (albeit very slowly) for any time the engine is off for longer periods. Their synthetic filter is built the same way. Now I will admit I have never paid attention to other filters and no idea if others are made like this and leak a little as well. I grabbed a Bosch Distance + I have and I could not see any seam or such like this one had. I even added oil to that filter just to check, and no leaking at all, even after 45 minutes, much less 45 seconds (so I guess I am using the Bosch filter next after this EcoGard). I will use this one, as well as the synthetic one I have. I will see if the synthetic one leaks before I use it (probably at least a year, if not more till I get to use it). Not really sure if I will use them any more after these 2 or not though. I was really debating using their synthetic one in place of Tough Guard (mainly because of price, but now it seems WM is not stocking the TG anymore). Their customer response really sold me on them after finding the rusty can. Decent filtration, great price. The QC and construction on them are just too iffy though. I guess it will be Wix made ST filters (although I am not crazy about the combo valve on the ST2, at least the ST3600 is a dome end type bypass). Who knows though, by the time I need to buy filters (almost 2 years for the truck, 3 years for the Scion), ST may change manufacturers. I am going to e-mail the rep again and see what he has to say. It may just be all lower end filters are made like this.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: blupupher

Anyhow, as I was letting the oil soak into the media, I turned the filter onto it's side and sat it on the workbench. Now when I added oil, I used a funnel, so absolutely no oil spilled out, and I did not fill it so full it leaked out the hole. After about 30 seconds, I see oil on the outside of the base plate: It is not coming out the ADV, inlet or outlet holes. I look closer and see a space that it has collected in, and it runs around the whole can (highlighted in yellow):

Bad design not using sealant like most filters do, and allows the filter to drain out even if the ADBV is working 100%.

 

[Hootbro]

Looks like they used sealant on the tapping plate but then spot weld though it on that secondary plate and basically negating it. Sad to see as I bought a few but luckily Wally World is easy on their ship to store returns as I will be returning mine.

 

[ZeeOSix]

I recall a few other people posted a year or 2 ago about a similar leak path through the base plate ... don't recall the filter brand though.

 

[chunt]

Wow, thanks for the discovery. I will still use the one I bought for my daughter's 03 Camry because of the way it is mounted. But on my Tacoma the base is down and the one I bought for it will be going back to Walmart.

 

[blupupher]

Originally Posted By: Hootbro

Looks like they used sealant on the tapping plate but then spot weld though it on that secondary plate and basically negating it. Sad to see as I bought a few but luckily Wally World is easy on their ship to store returns as I will be returning mine.

I did not see any type of sealant. The side was rolled (looks like it pressed between the 2 parts) and I think that is what was supposed to seal it. I grabbed a Fram ExtraGuard while at WM a few minutes ago and they have some type of glue/sealant in this area, I guess to prevent this. I returned the purchased filters back to Walmart, got a whoping $4.04 back for them.

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix

I recall a few other people posted a year or 2 ago about a similar leak path through the base plate ... don't recall the filter brand though.

Would be interesting to see who it was.

Originally Posted By: chunt

Wow, thanks for the discovery. I will still use the one I bought for my daughter's 03 Camry because of the way it is mounted. But on my Tacoma the base is down and the one I bought for it will be going back to Walmart.

I agree. If you have a base down or sideways mounted filter, this could be a problem. If it is a base up filter, shuld not be an issue. click on these for bigger pics:

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: blupupher

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix

I recall a few other people posted a year or 2 ago about a similar leak path through the base plate ... don't recall the filter brand though.

Would be interesting to see who it was.

Checkout this thread ... some similar talk about oil leaking through a non-sealed base plate: LINK

 

[Sayjac]

"People say "you spent $1.80 on a filter made in China, what did you expect". " I guess I'd say now, bad QC/QA for $1.80 or $10.80, the result is the same. Really the severely rusted dome area would concern me more, but put together not a good look to put it mildly. So all things considered, early assessment of "nothing special here" appears now to be an understatement 'imo'.

 

[goodtimes]

Besides the lack of sealant, the tapping plate is extremely thin and the bypass valve extremely small, too small. So much for 100% leak tested.

 

[Hootbro]

Originally Posted By: goodtimes

........... So much for 100% leak tested.

I would imagine any leak testing criteria is as a whole unit and not anything that checks ADBV retention between inlet and outlet of the media.

 

[blupupher]

Originally Posted By: Sayjac

"People say "you spent $1.80 on a filter made in China, what did you expect". " I guess I'd say now, bad QC/QA for $1.80 or $10.80, the result is the same. Really the severely rusted dome area would concern me more, but put together not a good look to put it mildly. So all things considered, early assessment of "nothing special here" appears now to be an understatement 'imo'.

Sometimes you can find a "sleeper" product, and this one had the potential (especially the synthetic one), but in the end, it is just that, a $1.80 filter that will work and do the job for most, but nothing special.

Originally Posted By: Hootbro

Originally Posted By: goodtimes

........... So much for 100% leak tested.

I would imagine any leak testing criteria is as a whole unit and not anything that checks ADBV retention between inlet and outlet of the media.

The filter itself would not leak out of the filter, there is just oil flowing within areas of the filter that there should not be. It actually does not affect the filtering ability at all, just the effectiveness of the ADV.