Ver 2 Mercruiser / ACPF1218 Oil Filter Study w/ Pore and Flow Data

Schmoe · Jan 30, 2004

Block heater, engine lightly loaded and not seeing over 2K rpm, ok, I can see that. But what if someone cranked up, and within one or two minutes, is cranking out 3 to 4K, highway driving? Ouch. I see your point and can relate, also no disrespect was ever intended. I've even contemplated getting block heaters in at least two of my cars for that very same reason....(right now your remembering exactly where Oklahoma is and saying....he's GOT to be kidding) Well, today it was down to 5 for the low, and yesterday the high was about 28. It does get cold sometimes down here.
Anyway, last post, our server here at work kicks me out at exactly 1400.

Patman · Jan 30, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by Schmoe:
Block heater, engine lightly loaded and not seeing over 2K rpm, ok, I can see that. But what if someone cranked up, and within one or two minutes, is cranking out 3 to 4K, highway driving?

If I lived that close to the highway, I'd take a roundabout way to get there in order to warm it up slowly first.

I do see your point though. My wife does not drive gently, even when the engine is cold, so when we leave at the same time in the morning for work, my car is parked behind hers, and she always ends up starting her engine just before I get into my car. Just to give her a bit of warmup time, I kind of stall a little bit for 20-30 seconds before I finally start my car so that her engine at least gets a little bit of heat into it before she romps on the pedal.

As I'm idling my way out of the townhouse complex though, she drives around me in the opposite lane, she's too impatient to wait behind me.

Grease is the word · Jan 30, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by Schmoe:
Look at the flow of oil filters at 70F, hardly anything is flowing. Now, drop that down about another 70 degrees, and then, what flow until oil warms up.

I'm would think the bypass is wide open at this point. It would be very interesting to know when the bypass is open / closed.

Grease is the word · Jan 30, 2004

I just got an email from Earthlink. I am about to exceed my bandwidth allocation for the month. If every visitor has viewed the .xls file and the second page (analysis), it has been viewed over 700 times! This is after I posted it on Monday.

I am going to have to make thumbnail pictures and have you click them to enlarge. That should help a lot since the jpgs are taking up over 1MB and every visitor won't enlarge every picture.

Grease is the word · Jan 30, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by Grease is the word:
Since my oil filter budget is blown and some folks want to test their "favorite" filter they are donating three filters to the PF 1218 study.

These are Amsoil, Mobil 1, and AC racing -- all in the PF1218 format.

I'll post again when we are done with adding these three.

Hang on to your hats folks, we are going to add a Donaldson to the mix. Found a local truck place that carries Baldwin and Donaldson. They have ordered me one that will be here in a week.

Schmoe · Jan 30, 2004

Patman....boy...are you sure our wifes aren't related? I just hate that. No matter how I try to explain the oil/filter/flow.....it's just a waste of my breath. Also, you know those V6 Accords got some zip. That car I run synthetic for manily that reason.
Wow, 700 hits. That's pretty cool. Nice overall report, not political minded and unbiased. Used the scientific method...and nothing but the facts. Sweet.

ZR2RANDO · Jan 30, 2004

Hey Patman, you may want to be a good husband, and go out there and crank the car for her a minute before she goes out there herself,,,,then go out and crank yours a minute later,,,then pour her a cup of coffee,,,,then walk out and talk to her for a minute...

edwardh1 · Jan 30, 2004

I e mailed this to Purolater today:
--------------------------------------------------------
This above site and others which test filters sometimes complain that while the pure one does a great job of filtering, its oil flow rate is "too low" and some people say they are "afraid to use them".

Do you have any technical flow rate data of what the Pure one filter (pick a common one like for a Chevy V6 or a Toyota Camry 4 cylinder) will flow in gallons per minute at an input pressure of say 20 PSI or whatever is common in the installed situation?

Thanks
(end of e mail)
_________________________________

I hope i get a real rsponse vice a standard canned marketing answer.
Of course i don't ever hear of peoples engines failing with Pure one
And wouldn't low oil flow cause low oil pressure and cause your dash light to come on?

ZR2RANDO · Jan 30, 2004

Hey Edwardh1, those Pureone's are a pay-me-now or pay-me-later kinda thing..They filter very well, but that very good filtration comes at a price. The better it filters, the less it flows...just causes more oil to bypass (which negates the filter at that point). Unless the bypass is blocked, there is no low oil pressure problem so there is no dash light.
Any filter has a tradeoff between filter efficiency and flow...if it filters too much it will cause a large pressure differential and cause bypass to occur (that bypass will occur either by using a dedicated bypass or by a weak spot in the filter..), even a high flow rated filter could eventually get clogged enough with debris to cause it to bypass,,,but they usually get changed before that happens.

edwardh1 · Jan 30, 2004

seems if it filtered well when it then went into bi pass there would not be much crap left in the bypass oil to cause a problem.
And i would be a lot would stay embedded in the filter media

ZR2RANDO · Jan 30, 2004

Theoretically that is true, but it depends on the bypass design,, The Fram filters that have a bypass will flow oil over the dirty side and then out the bypass valve and then back into the engine,,,,not good.
Most of the others will bypass oil prior to going over the dirty side, which is a better way to go. If the engine has the bypass prior to the filter the oil bypasses the filter completely.
The bypass is intended to come into play only during pressure spikes like cold starts with cold thick oil, or during high rpm jumps that would overflow the filter flow capacity. A highly restrictive filter could cause the bypass to open alot more often than that, in effect totally NOT FILTERING however much is bypassing.
Personally I don't use the Pureones because of that. I'd rather have most of the oil go through a mediocre less efficient filter, rather than only a smaller percentage getting better filtered and more oil getting no filtration whatsoever. The high efficiency filters would be better for short oil change intervals, but probably should be changed out during long OCIs.

edwardh1 · Jan 31, 2004

Too bad like the sears catalog of days past the filters are not labelled good, better, best.

Right now everyone claims theres is the best.

In air filter land there is even less facts to make an opinion on

ZR2RANDO · Jan 31, 2004

Yeah but I bet the Sears catalogue only sold Fram filters! But if you took the catalogue and rolled it up and put it in a can...hmmmm
You are right about the air filters, they get even less respect I think. Good luck on getting a good response back from the PureOne folks, post it here if they do answer you..

edwardh1 · Jan 31, 2004

There is a statement in this write up that all of the filters are in bipass during warm up. ALL

If I hear from Purolater I will post it

ZR2RANDO · Jan 31, 2004

I agree, I am sure that cold starts, with cold thick oil is a big hitter in the bypass world, the goal is to try to keep the time in bypass mode to a minimum.
Those bypass valves (whether in the filter mount or the filter itself) were designed in by the mfgrs out of neccessity..the intent is to run oil through the filter as much as possible, only bypass it short term when required.

427Z06 · Jan 31, 2004

Grease, Outstanding Job!! And thanks for sharing the info.

One question that I still wonder about is how much flow will increase as viscosity drops. Given that viscosity drops by a factor of 100 from 70F to 200F, would anyone want to EWAG a guess at the factor increase in flow? 100 times more flow with 1/100 the viscosity?

labman · Jan 31, 2004

Right. Here is the equation engineers use to calculate the flow of a liquid in a tube, v= pipr^4/8lnu. Volume of flow equals 3.14 times pressure times radius to the fourth power divided by 8 times length times the viscosity. The volume goes up as the length of the tube or the viscosity goes down. It goes up with the pressure and an astounding fourth power of the radius. At high enough flow rates where the flow becomes turbulent, it is the fifth power of the radius.

The formula for going through a hole like a pore is slightly different and I don't have it handy.

427Z06 · Jan 31, 2004

Thanks labman. So thats volume = pi x pressure x radius^4 / 8 x length x n? x u?

Grease is the word · Jan 31, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by 427Z06:
Grease, Outstanding Job!! And thanks for sharing the info.

427Z06, Thanks, I'm glad you liked it. It is my way of contributing to the board. The real benefit was our pore and flow tester.

I found a site for the pictures and we'll be back on-line tomorrow.

Grease is the word · Jan 31, 2004

click here for chart showing viscosity to temperature relationship

Ver 2 Mercruiser / ACPF1218 Oil Filter Study w/ Pore and Flow Data

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