Ver 2 Mercruiser / ACPF1218 Oil Filter Study w/ Pore and Flow Data

[edwardh1]

good stuff
they said in general pumps put out 2 GPM per 1000 RPM
_____________________________

the slight presure drop that pureone says they get at 3 GPM (less than 1 psi) does not look to be a problem to me. I may start using them. i seldom drive over 3000 RPM, mostly not over 2500 RPM. Wish I knew what flow rates Bob was getting with all the filters at 40 psi input.

 

[ZR2RANDO]

Just keep in mind that pressure drop across the filter media increases pretty quick as the inlet pressure/rpm increases. The pressure drop across any given filter will also be a lot bigger after a couple thousand miles than it was when new/clean. As an auto oil filter gets a little dirty it can force partial bypass more often as it gets dirtier, the more restrictive it is the more it will force bypass....
I'm sure the Pureones will do you just fine, but I won't use them, I want as much filtered flow as possible, doesn't need to be squeaky clean but I do want it filtered. I also change oil every 3k, so I don't give anything too much of a chance to really crud up..
That article is pretty good isn't it, enjoy
Rando

 

[Michael SR]

i just dropped a stroked LT4 into my corvette. i used a filter adapter from C-M in order to get rid of any bypass mechanism. i use the PF1218 filter, effectively as a forced full-flow filter.

i was a bit worried about this. i thought that either the filter would lose shape from the pressure on cold starts and leak past the seal, or the oil pressure seen by the engine would suffer. neither has been the case.

on the contrary, the pressure is really good. i'm seeing 35psi at a hot idle, and 60psi by 2000rpm. when cold the gauge hits about 60psi at idle, 80psi anything over idle.

oh, this is all using schaeffer's micron moly 15w40.

if i become corageous enough i might try a more "restrictive" PF1218 alternate, like the pure one or M1, and see what happens.

-michael

 

[Grease is the word]

If you ever wanted to go by-pass again, you could use the Baldwin B1441. It has a 14psi by-pass valve built on the filter and is the same format as the PF1218.

I always wondered how it would be if you used such a filter with by-pass on a GM engine that had the by-pass.

 

[Roger]

Your analysis got me to wondering if there was a correlation between filters and insoluble readings. Call me anal, but I searched the uoa postings by filter and quickly averaged the insolubles reported in the 1st 10 reports I found for each filter.

code:

---

PureOne 4.1

Motorcraft 4.0 (only found 7)

Mobil 1 3.7

Amsoil 3.7

Supertech 3.3

K&N 3.3

Wix 3.0

---

Lots of other variables affect insolubles than filters, but it sure would be interesting to see how all oil filters stacked up if I had the time.

 

[ZR2RANDO]

Pretty much shows that you can get cleaner oil through the less efficient filters just because more of the oil actually goes THROUGH the filter.
The very efficient filters (like a filter designed to filter out bacteria) depend on a slower flowrate and NO bypass but they catch everything...just depends on the application as to just how a filter is used...

 

[Grease is the word]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Roger:
Your analysis got me to wondering if there was a correlation between filters and insoluble readings. Call me anal, but I searched the uoa postings by filter and quickly averaged the insolubles reported in the 1st 10 reports I found for each filter.

---

Very interesting, Roger. I applaud your efforts.

 

[T-Keith]

Something interesting from AC-Delco, in the advertizing for their Ultraguard:

http://www.shoclub.com/images/oilarticle/Image14.gif

This link is from the shoclub.com, it shows the Pure1 flows quite well.

Seems a little different in the flow rates. Possible explanations? The filters could have changed(I'm sure this is a couple years old). Also this probably factors in the canisters flow, which might make a big difference.

-T

 

[T-Keith]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Grease is the word:

quote:

---

Originally posted by T-Keith:
Which style AC did you test, the Champion or the other one? It would be interesting to see how they compare.

-T

---

The Champion from AutoZone. I have looked at Advanced Auto and see it is the same.

---

Odd I was just at Advanced yesterday, and the PF-47 was definately not a Champion. I guess I'll check the others today.

-T

 

[Schmoe]

See???? especially to all you nay-sayers.

That is why I have always believed in letting the car warm up.

 

[edwardh1]

cool test carl.
would like to see what a 4 cyl Camry oil pump time is

interesting

 

[Patman]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Schmoe:
See???? especially to all you nay-sayers.

That is why I have always believed in letting the car warm up.

---

But it's also possible that if he drove the car right away, but gently, the oil might have begun to reach the valvetrain sooner due to the engine being under more load.

 

[novadude]

quote:

---

But it's also possible that if he drove the car right away, but gently, the oil might have begun to reach the valvetrain sooner due to the engine being under more load.

---

Load would not affect pump output, but RPM would. I usually throw mine in gear and pull away slowly, keeping it at 1500 rpm (usually results in very slow speeds, since I have a somewhat-loose 9.5" PI converter.

 

[Dan4510]

quote:

---

Originally posted by novadude:

quote:

---

But it's also possible that if he drove the car right away, but gently, the oil might have begun to reach the valvetrain sooner due to the engine being under more load.

---

Load would not affect pump output, but RPM would. I usually throw mine in gear and pull away slowly, keeping it at 1500 rpm (usually results in very slow speeds, since I have a somewhat-loose 9.5" PI converter.

---

9.5 inch converter--somewhat loose? I bet, is the stall 4000?

9.5 inch converter is in the territory of race converter!

Dan

 

[carl97ss]

Late last week we touched on the question of letting a car warm up or not let warm up in the cold. On Sunday morning I pulled the valve cover on my car and ran a stopwatch.

The car is a little different than the average car. It is my dailey driver. It's a bored and stroked Camaro w/ GM LT1 engine. It holds 7 3/4 qts. of Chevron 5w30 dyno oil and an ac/delco pf-1218 ultraguard ( my last one). I have a High pressure Melling 55A oil pump.

The car had not run for 39 hours and it was 20 degrees F on Sunday morning. At cold start up, my car idles at 1050 rpm's. It took 38 seconds for oil to appear at the top of the pushrod were it meets the roller rocker. It took another 20 seconds (58 secs. after start up)for oil to work it's way to the tip of the roller rocker where it meets the valve stem. At the same time, 58 seconds after start up, oil appeared at the base of the valve spring where it sits on the cylinder head. By this time, the engine's idle had dropped to 900 rpm's. Oil started to appear on all the pushrods. rockers/springs within +- 3 to 5 seconds of each other.

I suspect with a factory oil pump things might take a bit longer....With a 0w or 5w synthetic a bit faster....althou i found the Chevron 5w30 seemed to flow closely to Mobil 1 5w-30 when put in my 0 degree F freezer.

[ February 10, 2004, 12:15 PM: Message edited by: carl97ss ]

 

[T-Keith]

quote:

---

Originally posted by T-Keith:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Grease is the word:

quote:

---

Originally posted by T-Keith:
Which style AC did you test, the Champion or the other one? It would be interesting to see how they compare.

-T

---

The Champion from AutoZone. I have looked at Advanced Auto and see it is the same.

---

Odd I was just at Advanced yesterday, and the PF-47 was definately not a Champion. I guess I'll check the others today.

-T

---

At Advanced Auto parts, PF-47, PF-52, and PF-59 were not champion, the rest were.

-T

 

[novadude]

quote:

---

9.5 inch converter--somewhat loose? I bet, is the stall 4000?

9.5 inch converter is in the territory of race converter!

---

Would it shock you to know that this converter is in a daily driven car (1995 5.0 Mustang), used year round in rain, sleet, snow, etc?

It actually has a 2600 rpm stall speed, and does not drive much different from stock. To the untrained observer, it is not even noticed at part throttle. It is a precision industries piece, and it is 9.5" (stock was around 12"), but it is a very tight, efficient converter. They are not cheap, but they work very well, and they are very tame at light throttle.

www.converter.com

 

[carl97ss]

I believe with the winter weight oils we use, higher RPM would definately increase the oil pressure, to a point (mine max's out at 63psi when cold at idle or 2500rpms) and then perhaps a quicker oiling of the upper valve train. I'll check that the next 20 degree morning...
However, oil is pretty thick at 20 degrees. If it's not getting into the tight bearing tolerences ( .002") right away and you put the engine under even a light load, I think that might be bad.

Do we still believe that 70-90% of engine wear happens at start up?

 

[Schmoe]

Why, yes, Of COURSE

I tell you, there just ain't no changing Patman's beliefs. I guess I'm going to die trying.
.......regardless, it's still a LOAD none-the-less. Cold engine=no load=GOOD.

 

[carl97ss]

load + cold oil + start and drive =