Vendors asking for ID for CC

[Pop_Rivit]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit
I understand that you don't know how a business works; I know you don't realize the impact to the bottom line of a business when cards are fraudulently used. But for both large and small businesses it is can be a very large amount of money out of their profits every month.


Really? That's totally laughable, because this was a gas station. If I had swiped at the pump, the card could have been stolen and there were NO protocols or protections. I go inside, smile at the camera, hand over the card, and Im magically a crook that has to justify my innocence and desire to purchase is on the level? What a ridiculous argument. I wonder what method the crooks are going to use...

And given that most retail is going to self-checkout, it is ever more obvious that this is merely spotty, incorrect interpretation and they DONT care.


It would be difficult to implement an ID verification at the pump. I don't own a fuel station so I can't comment on the fuel pump issue from a merchants perspective other than assuring you that any loss due to theft is built back into the price that everyone else pays.

With all due respect, I'm not the one moaning and complaining about the "hassle" of simply showing an ID. The fact is there was a protocol in place at that business. It's not perfect; none ever are. It is after all the real world and not some fantasy land. But at least the merchant has done as much as they can and as much as they feel comfortable with.

Again, I understand that you really don't understand how a business works so I'll cut you a little slack.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Originally Posted By: Trajan
Originally Posted By: bdcardinal


Technically we are supposed to refuse to accept a card that has "See ID" instead of a signature, however that is a huge hassle that we don't want to deal with.


I always refused. Or some guy who handed me a card with a woman's name.... (Not a boy names Sue)


My friend Danny has a woman's name on his credit cards! (His name is actually Dana, not Daniel.)

 

[Jarlaxle]

Originally Posted By: jcwit
If you're worried about implied guilt, don't ever fly.


I'd rather hitch-hike. It's less hassle!

 

[Jarlaxle]

Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: bdcardinal
If they really follow the merchandisers agreement they are supposed to refuse the card if that is written on the back.

From what I gather in this thread, PIN cards aren't very common when it comes to credit cards in the States yet?


Most PIN cards are actually DEBIT cards.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: rjundi
Just saying but you seem to really get frustrated about a lot of little stuff in life. Maybe the internet is an outlet for it.

Do you really think the retailer workers honestly care if a card is good or not or want to bother you. Somebody forces them.



True. The cashier likely couldnt care less. This was a 7-11 after all.

But NO other 7-11 have I ever been asked for ID, and so again, its an inconsistency thing as well as a merchant agreement issue (which the CC companies, BTW, call a "violation").

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit

It would be difficult to implement an ID verification at the pump. I don't own a fuel station so I can't comment on the fuel pump issue from a merchants perspective other than assuring you that any loss due to theft is built back into the price that everyone else pays.

With all due respect, I'm not the one moaning and complaining about the "hassle" of simply showing an ID. The fact is there was a protocol in place at that business. It's not perfect; none ever are. It is after all the real world and not some fantasy land. But at least the merchant has done as much as they can and as much as they feel comfortable with.

Again, I understand that you really don't understand how a business works so I'll cut you a little slack.


With all due respect yourself, your strawman arguments are fairly irrelevant and dont get anyone anywhere. Difficult to enforce at the pump? LOL. Where do you think the crook is going to swipe the card from then? Inside? So what does this do? NOTHING.

And the reality is that there is no protocol in place. Ive been at quite a few 7-11 stores, and have NEVER been asked for ID. Maybe it is because I was in NM and there is a lot of illegals and crime, I dont know. But 7-11, a multi-state, large business certainly understands their merchant agreement.

Its obvious that you dont get it. Businesses are violating their merchant agreements, and inconveniencing the customer. As a supposedly successful business owner, you should understand that if you alienate customers with silly "protocols" that you will lose business. So that's two strikes right there. Of course if anyone actually cared about losses, they would be pushing for more meaningful fraud prevention systems within CC processing. Strike three.

As a supposedly successful businessman you should also understand that in businesses with much competition and minimal differentiation between goods/services, you have limited capability to pass costs of losses along to the customer, as it may well price you out of being competitive. In my case I went not a quarter mile down the road, got gas without hassle or having violations of merchant agreements imposed on me, and someone else got the business. Simple as that. Nobody HAS to have gas from one specific station, or wine from one specific winery, if the hassles and pricing are perceived as poor value.

 

[99Saturn]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: 99Saturn
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
The very few times Ive ever seen a questionable transaction, about five minutes of work and its gone. I guess others use banks that have absolutely horrible service; perhaps they should shop around.

So, help me understand, you're using a CC or bank that credits the charge that is questionable (I interpret that as believed fraud, is it something else?) and doesn't replace the card? I find that pretty strange if that's the case.

Care to share what institution has this practice, because that's not my experience with Discover or Amex, and personally I would want to stay away.


Absolutely a new card is issued and charges are reversed. But it is done VERY fast and with minimal hassle.

Once over ten years ago we had a pair of jeans bought in OK and shipped to the Ukraine. That one we called the store and figured out the details. The other two times have been beyond fast and simple to get a new card number and going again.

We probably have a different view of the hassle that is involved in the replacement card. Personally I don't like waiting for a new card - fast to me would be in my mailbox the next day. Anything beyond that has me frustrated.

I can't fault the CC company for how long it takes to review charges over the phone, once I've seen fraud, I want to review every charge on the CC, it's going to take me more than 5 minutes to review these charges, especially if it been a heavy usage month.

 

[supton]

Originally Posted By: bdcardinal
Originally Posted By: Anies
My cards are all signed with "check id"

Guess what? They don't check!


If they really follow the merchandisers agreement they are supposed to refuse the card if that is written on the back. Technically they are supposed to call the number on the back and inform the card company that it is marked "see id" so they can send another one out to you to actually sign.

I also don't check ID because it violates our merchandiser's agreement with the card company.


I looked into this a couple months ago, and you're required to sign the back of the card. All it means is that *you* the card holder have agreed to the terms and conditions that the credit card company offered to you. You are required to sign the back of the card or the card is not valid.

I have to wonder: if you signed then printed "check for ID" -- would it matter? I mean, are they required to ask for ID if it's written to do so on the card? I ask that in the spirit of this thread, where the merchant is not allowed to require ID--can the cardholder print that requirement onto the card, and then have that as a new condition?

 

[bdcardinal]

Originally Posted By: supton
I have to wonder: if you signed then printed "check for ID" -- would it matter? I mean, are they required to ask for ID if it's written to do so on the card? I ask that in the spirit of this thread, where the merchant is not allowed to require ID--can the cardholder print that requirement onto the card, and then have that as a new condition?


I would have to say no. The merchant's agreement is with the card company, not the holder.

Personally I like the cards that have a photo on them, makes a lot of sense.

Supposedly the PIN and chip system will be replacing the magnetic strip in the US in the next few years. The cashier at my work is from the Ukraine and said they haven't had the magnetic strip cards there for a long time.

 

[greenjp]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
... Businesses are violating their merchant agreements, and inconveniencing the customer...
In my case I went not a quarter mile down the road, got gas without hassle or having violations of merchant agreements imposed on me, and someone else got the business. Simple as that. Nobody HAS to have gas from one specific station, or wine from one specific winery, if the hassles and pricing are perceived as poor value.

I'm still struggling with the level of outrage you have about this practice. As we've (I believe) established, simply asking for ID isn't in fact a breach of merchant agreement, and there's no way you can convince me that taking 2 seconds to pull your license out constittes an actual "hassle". I repeat my point that you sound like a crazy person. Or at the very least a wacky old curmudgeon.

I'd love to see the eyerolls from the CSRs at your credit card companies when you call with one of these complaints.

jeff

 

[Trajan]

Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
Originally Posted By: Trajan
Originally Posted By: bdcardinal


Technically we are supposed to refuse to accept a card that has "See ID" instead of a signature, however that is a huge hassle that we don't want to deal with.


I always refused. Or some guy who handed me a card with a woman's name.... (Not a boy names Sue)


My friend Danny has a woman's name on his credit cards! (His name is actually Dana, not Daniel.)


Names like Dana, Alexis, Michael go both ways.

So glad I'm not in retail anymore......

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
Most PIN cards are actually DEBIT cards.

The PIN chip cards are pretty much the norm here. Most clearing houses don't even allow the use of the magnetic stripe any longer, except under very specific circumstances, such as gas pumps. Even those are migrating to chips. In fact, the clearing houses charge merchants extra here for non-chip transactions.

American Express is the last company operating up here to not fully adopt the chip cards. But, their operating model up here is about thirty years out of date, so that's no surprise.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Originally Posted By: Trajan
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
Originally Posted By: Trajan
Originally Posted By: bdcardinal


Technically we are supposed to refuse to accept a card that has "See ID" instead of a signature, however that is a huge hassle that we don't want to deal with.


I always refused. Or some guy who handed me a card with a woman's name.... (Not a boy names Sue)


My friend Danny has a woman's name on his credit cards! (His name is actually Dana, not Daniel.)


Names like Dana, Alexis, Michael go both ways.

So glad I'm not in retail anymore......


His wife's name is Jeremy. I have worked with men named Jean. (One from Quebec, one from Haiti.) I know of plenty of men (mostly Brits) named Robin.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: greenjp
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
... Businesses are violating their merchant agreements, and inconveniencing the customer...
In my case I went not a quarter mile down the road, got gas without hassle or having violations of merchant agreements imposed on me, and someone else got the business. Simple as that. Nobody HAS to have gas from one specific station, or wine from one specific winery, if the hassles and pricing are perceived as poor value.

I'm still struggling with the level of outrage you have about this practice. As we've (I believe) established, simply asking for ID isn't in fact a breach of merchant agreement, and there's no way you can convince me that taking 2 seconds to pull your license out constittes an actual "hassle". I repeat my point that you sound like a crazy person. Or at the very least a wacky old curmudgeon.

I'd love to see the eyerolls from the CSRs at your credit card companies when you call with one of these complaints.

jeff


Refusal of accepting my card because I refused to show ID on a properly signed card, IS.

Clear as day and simple to report:

http://www.mastercard.us/support/merchant-violations.html

Some get it, others dont. I think this thread has run its course.

 

[greenjp]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Refusal of accepting my card because I refused to show ID on a properly signed card, IS.

Clear as day and simple to report:

http://www.mastercard.us/support/merchant-violations.html

Some get it, others dont. I think this thread has run its course.

From the 4th post in this thread, one of yours:
"MasterCard and Visa, however, explicitly prohibit retailers from requiring an ID to accept a properly signed card. "They can ask for that ID, but you can refuse to show the ID and they still must accept the card," says Paul Stephens, director of policy and advocacy at the Privacy Rights Clearinghouse, a nonprofit that advocates for consumer privacy rights."
As I said, "simply asking" is not prohibited. I think we "get" what's going on here

 

[hypervish]

So let me get this straight, it's a hassle to show them your ID but it's not a hassle to have to call your CC after false charges appear on your bill and you have to get a new card.

OK, carry on. Some of you really need better things to worry about.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: greenjp
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Refusal of accepting my card because I refused to show ID on a properly signed card, IS.

Clear as day and simple to report:

http://www.mastercard.us/support/merchant-violations.html

Some get it, others dont. I think this thread has run its course.

From the 4th post in this thread, one of yours:
"MasterCard and Visa, however, explicitly prohibit retailers from requiring an ID to accept a properly signed card. "They can ask for that ID, but you can refuse to show the ID and they still must accept the card," says Paul Stephens, director of policy and advocacy at the Privacy Rights Clearinghouse, a nonprofit that advocates for consumer privacy rights."
As I said, "simply asking" is not prohibited. I think we "get" what's going on here

Perhaps I wasnt clear. They DID decline, they refused to honor my card.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Refusal of accepting my card because I refused to show ID on a properly signed card, IS.

I think it's time they get on the chip card bandwagon for credit cards, then. There used to be the ID business going on up here, and that would obviously vary from location to location. Really, all they were required to do was verify the signature. Now, if there's no chip and they don't have the PIN, they're essentially out of luck. If the PIN is entered, correctly and the transaction is approved, the retailer has no liability. The protections granted the cardholder are the same, too.

I've had fraudulent charges removed from my credit card with no hassles whatsoever. I've also seen chargeback rates against merchants on credit card transactions drop down to nothing. It's hard to see a downside.