Varnish Article

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Sparks caused by static discharges through glass filter media. . .
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Amazing! Check out the video of the electrical storm inside the oil tank. That might work like a Van De Graaf generator, but with a liquid instead of a rubber belt?
 
I think the point of the "cheapest oil" doesn't automatically translate to "inferior" when we're talking about non-turbo, lo-pop, mid-horsepower offerings in the econobox sedans and family cars. That would include sub-280HP V-6s, and most non-turbo 4banger DOHC American, Japanese and Korean engines, which together probably comprise 90% of the engines owned by folks here on BITOG, and more than that out on the street.

Possessed of excellent fuel/temp/oil control, superior materials and tolerances, motors of this genre' are very easy on the oil. Further, under ILSAC GF4/API SM, the oils have passed rigorous testing and undergone abuse a street car will never begin to approach. So when we talk "cheap" oil in terms of only dollars and cents without regard to the API and ILSAC classification, I can only conclude folks are attempting to justify greater than necessary expenditures for a brand name and hence, irrational comfort level.

Certainly GroupIII syns are better than standard Dino, ASSUMING a longer change interval. But these sub-3-5K OCI don't even begin to wear out dinos, if UOA are to be believed. That being the case (and keep in mind, I'm referring to standard-issue, lo-pop V-6's and import, non-turbo 4-bangers here), ANY SM/GF4 dino on up 5K OCI is going to serve well. Given that most folks are still stuck on SM?

I know it shouldn't but this notion that "my engine is expensive and oil and filters are cheap, therefore, I'm blowing 5 quarts and a filter out of service at 3K whether I need to or not" makes me crazy. A terrible waste it seems to me, and a completely non-factual, ignorant notion to boot.

To imply that "cheap oil" is no good, and only the "names" at twice and thrice the price are any good smacks of know-nothingness. Especially when the advocates of such theories ignore the body of evidence that exists here in such abundance, yes, some of it provided by good old, cheapskate Utah Bill.
 
I don't see the great 5k dino UOA's you seem to describe. I consider them somewhat adequate only. THe TBN is usually too low to give any cushion, at 1.0 is sludge forming, maybe, maybe not. Also the insols are at least .3 or .4. I see no safety margin. I would thing 4k is more appropriate for these oils . I am not intending this to be anything other than me presenting a different viewpoint. NOt meant to be rude or crude!!!
Greg Harrison
 
Dino oils couldn't even keep my brother's 05' Corolla engine clean with oil changes every 4k-5k miles. It now has twenty some thousand miles on it. I looked at it last weekend. Varnished dipstick and it has built up black deposits in the oil fill hole (I assume it's oxidized oil with carbon particles in it).

His 1st Gen. Prius engine is quite sludged and varnished up. He bought it used this way.

My mother's 99' BMW 328i is also quite sludged up.

I've seen people's clean engines that used dino oils. I know it CAN keep engines clean. It just doesn't take much to go beyond what dino oils can handle.

Some synthetics were not able to keep my VW 1.8T engine clean during 4k-6k mile OCIs. Tougher job with tougher oils but still not tough enough. Only certain synthetics are able to keep it clean with those OCIs.
 
I'm moving back to Amsoil 0w-20. I've changed brands so many #@$%! times. I have 5,700 miles on Havoline DS already but don't want to push it. Amsoil's additive package for the ASL/ASM/ATM are great.
 
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Need I mention Bill In Utah ? . . .
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I'd do what has worked for me the last 30 years and hundreds of thousands of miles.

I've posted UOAs here to PROVE my points.

*If* I'm still here in another 15-20k miles when I adjust my valves in the Toyota I'll even take a photo to show what my engine looks like.

I know there will be NO sludge or problems.

I just love how this board comes up with a bunch of links and marketing but ignores actual data and facts.
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We just need to all run the most expensive oil and filter, change it every 3-5k and never run UOAs since they are useless.
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Amazing....
 
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I don't see the great 5k dino UOA's you seem to describe. I consider them somewhat adequate only. THe TBN is usually too low to give any cushion, at 1.0 is sludge forming, maybe, maybe not. Also the insols are at least .3 or .4. I see no safety margin. I would thing 4k is more appropriate for these oils . I am not intending this to be anything other than me presenting a different viewpoint. NOt meant to be rude or crude!!!
Greg Harrison




Greg,

Miss this one?

Code:

Aluminum 3

Chromium 0

Iron 3

Copper 0

Lead 0

Tin 1

Moly 15

Nickel 0

Maganese 2

Silver 0

Titanium 0

Potassium 1

Boron 21

Silicon 4

Sodium 2

Calcium 2276

Magnesium 7

Phosphorus 667

Zinc 764

Barium 0

Visc 55.4 (s/b 56-63)

Flashpoint 365

Fuel TR

Antifreeze 0.0

Water 0.0

Insol 0.3

TBN 4.4



5.8k miles in the winter. Castrol GTX 5w-30.
 
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I just needed a live example to prove my point to Steve S and you met the specifications perfectly.

It's all good Bill.
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UOAs aren't reliable method to determine varnish potential, but that's not to say that high TBN and low insolubles isn't a step in the right direction. It's just that a UOA can give false positives.
 
..for sure. I'd hate to see what would happen if dino oil was used in your Saab for 7500 mile OCIs. I'd even hate to see how many synthetics would do.
 
I'm desperately searching for a pic a friend of mine took of his changed every 5k, M1 0W40-only SAAB 9-5's valve train.
 
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