Valvoline Restore & Protect

[Sequoiasoon]

This is little bit late me replying here considering I was interested in trying out Valvoline since my truck is 21 years old with 205K miles on it. Well I had some maintenance work done on it this past month and we did it in 3 stages because was too many things was due for maintenance like spark plugs replacement and cleaning, intake manifold cleaning, front and rear differential seals, injectors cleaning and replacement, leaking engine seals left and right, new clutch, new oil pump, new fuel pump, new throttle body, draining and refilling the transmission and power steering and only one thing left is draining and refilling the radiator and that didn't got done because they couldn't find the recommended antifreeze I opt for. I will order it online and have it done on a day I'm off from work.

Interestingly enough since they had to replace the oil pan seal the mechanic got the chance to see the engine from below and he was shocked of how clean it was that it took picture from it and showed me. There wasn't even mild varnish anywhere, everything was silver color.

Bear in mind even though I used the Mobil 1 EP, my last 7-8 oil changes back to back were shady around 8K-12K miles / 8-12 months intervals and only using the 5W20 version and while yes I get on the interstate from time to time I get stuck in traffic a lot and I'm constantly lugging loads.

From what I saw on the picture there is zero need for me to be using the Valvoline, actually I was shocked how spotless clean the engine was kept for the last 7-8 years considering the shady oil changes. What an impressive oil the Mobil 1 EP is, I'm glad I have been using it for the past 20 years. I did only one thing different with the oil change this time around, I bumped up on the viscosity to 5W-30 and probably that's not needed but after 21 years of service its time for richer viscosity and I will make sure no more shady oil changes and stick to the 3K miles oil changes as I was doing the first 12-13 years. I'm sticking with the Mobil 1 no doubt!

Not saying M1 EP or others are bad and don't maintain clean. Not saying VRP (or HPL) are the best things since indoor plumbing. I am intrigued by many users of VRP and HPL that always used good quality full syn like the M1 EP and then tried another like the VRP or even an EC30 run or 2 and then saw the carbon stuff in filters.

I've cut my filters for years but never really examined to closely the filter media. Using the EC30 for me was eye opening with how much junk/carbon was in my filter can and particles on media. Others have experienced the same. The VRP seems to be the inexpensive way to address some of that with IMO the HPL being even more capable. I'm sure some Amsoil's also as some say.

Grab a couple EC30's and put a quart in at next couple OCI in place of 1 qt M1 EP. If you are clean and impressed as you say so no sludge concerns, run for full OCI. Maybe swap filter 1/2 way through and cut it open to check. That was what I did and then ran full OCI for a couple more with no worries.

 

[soli]

Not saying M1 EP or others are bad and don't maintain clean. Not saying VRP (or HPL) are the best things since indoor plumbing. I am intrigued by many users of VRP and HPL that always used good quality full syn like the M1 EP and then tried another like the VRP or even an EC30 run or 2 and then saw the carbon stuff in filters.

I've cut my filters for years but never really examined to closely the filter media. Using the EC30 for me was eye opening with how much junk/carbon was in my filter can and particles on media. Others have experienced the same. The VRP seems to be the inexpensive way to address some of that with IMO the HPL being even more capable. I'm sure some Amsoil's also as some say.

Grab a couple EC30's and put a quart in at next couple OCI in place of 1 qt M1 EP. If you are clean and impressed as you say so no sludge concerns, run for full OCI. Maybe swap filter 1/2 way through and cut it open to check. That was what I did and then ran full OCI for a couple more with no worries.

Question is considering both valve cover gaskets were changed and the oil pan gasket too and the engine looks spotless top and bottom, where else can there be sludge hiding? I know the concern is always around the pistons area because that's where the magic happens but lets not forget that is the area that is constantly in motion and the oil gets to clean the most because of the constant friction. I knew the top was clean because every time I looked with flashlight trough the oil filler hole everything looked silver even before my worst oil change that was around 12K miles and almost 1 year duration ( never again I will do this mistake), however to be honest I was also at ease because of the leaks I had back then and I had to poor back in fresh oil from time to time, no more leaks now...

I just don't understand where can be sludge hiding when I don't even have the typical varnish yellowing on any metals. The mechanic showed me engine pics of his both older vehicles, he has the old Neon SRT and the older Tacoma and both engines were nice and clean but they did had varnish on them. He never uses full synthetic but always he chooses the top name brands for oil. In his mind he has zero concerns regarding the varnish and both of his vehicles are approaching 400K mark, yes varnish everywhere but spotless clean when it comes to sludge build up and my truck don't even have varnish...

The only thing that I can think of maybe doing is mixing 5 quart of the Mobil 1 and 1 quart of the Valvoline like you said. Here is another thing about the Mobil 1 oil, I can have a brand new oil change and in matter of 100-200 miles driving the oil starts to darken up a little, that tells me this oil is full on force cleaning considering the 10% ethanol that was introduced way back in 2005 I think. I'll give it a shot on the next oil change, I'll mix it up with 1 quart of the Valvoline just for giggles.

 

[Sequoiasoon]

Question is considering both valve cover gaskets were changed and the oil pan gasket too and the engine looks spotless top and bottom, where else can there be sludge hiding? I know the concern is always around the pistons area because that's where the magic happens but lets not forget that is the area that is constantly in motion and the oil gets to clean the most because of the constant friction. I knew the top was clean because every time I looked with flashlight trough the oil filler hole everything looked silver even before my worst oil change that was around 12K miles and almost 1 year duration ( never again I will do this mistake), however to be honest I was also at ease because of the leaks I had back then and I had to poor back in fresh oil from time to time, no more leaks now...

I just don't understand where can be sludge hiding when I don't even have the typical varnish yellowing on any metals. The mechanic showed me engine pics of his both older vehicles, he has the old Neon SRT and the older Tacoma and both engines were nice and clean but they did had varnish on them. He never uses full synthetic but always he chooses the top name brands for oil. In his mind he has zero concerns regarding the varnish and both of his vehicles are approaching 400K mark, yes varnish everywhere but spotless clean when it comes to sludge build up and my truck don't even have varnish...

The only thing that I can think of maybe doing is mixing 5 quart of the Mobil 1 and 1 quart of the Valvoline like you said. Here is another thing about the Mobil 1 oil, I can have a brand new oil change and in matter of 100-200 miles driving the oil starts to darken up a little, that tells me this oil is full on force cleaning considering the 10% ethanol that was introduced way back in 2005 I think. I'll give it a shot on the next oil change, I'll mix it up with 1 quart of the Valvoline just for giggles.

VRP is marketed reported as cleaning the ring areas and from carbon, not sludge. 2 totally different things and different requirements.

The darkening at that mileage you are observing is probably not from cleaning but more from the additives etc. that are part of the oil and how they react at temperature. Some darken quicker than others, lots of information here at BITOG on that. Also any oil left in pan etc that didn't drain all the way. Think this way, your motor is spotless top and bottom according to information. What is it cleaning in a couple hundred miles? I have different oils and they start at different shades.

Most also recommend not playing backyard chemist and mixing chemistries of oils. So many things go into a full oil formulation. One "exception" I think is HPL EC30 many on here (and myself) recommend. It is a fully formula oil with the specific additives that do better cleaning. Even that is marketed/designed to be used as a transition to full HPL oil use. The full HPL formulations are excellent oils and clean really well. Concern on direct switch is unknown engine dirt/carbon/sludge and filter getting overloaded quickly. The EC30 gets a bunch of that out first. VRP also is marketed as a "gentler" cleaning that may take over 4 OCI's to see a difference for same reason.

I have full VRP in a couple vehicles. I also have other oil brands with some HPL in others and would have no issue running 1qt of EC30 all the time. Most of my vehicles are shorter trip so just getting the junk out and changed works better in my head for me so VRP would be more cost effective. I just spent about $30 doing the oil change on my Pilot with VRP. While doing that I spent $80 in oil sampling to get the old stuff tested so I can determine what works better for my use.

 

[soli]

VRP is marketed reported as cleaning the ring areas and from carbon, not sludge. 2 totally different things and different requirements.

The darkening at that mileage you are observing is probably not from cleaning but more from the additives etc. that are part of the oil and how they react at temperature. Some darken quicker than others, lots of information here at BITOG on that. Also any oil left in pan etc that didn't drain all the way. Think this way, your motor is spotless top and bottom according to information. What is it cleaning in a couple hundred miles? I have different oils and they start at different shades.

Most also recommend not playing backyard chemist and mixing chemistries of oils. So many things go into a full oil formulation. One "exception" I think is HPL EC30 many on here (and myself) recommend. It is a fully formula oil with the specific additives that do better cleaning. Even that is marketed/designed to be used as a transition to full HPL oil use. The full HPL formulations are excellent oils and clean really well. Concern on direct switch is unknown engine dirt/carbon/sludge and filter getting overloaded quickly. The EC30 gets a bunch of that out first. VRP also is marketed as a "gentler" cleaning that may take over 4 OCI's to see a difference for same reason.

I have full VRP in a couple vehicles. I also have other oil brands with some HPL in others and would have no issue running 1qt of EC30 all the time. Most of my vehicles are shorter trip so just getting the junk out and changed works better in my head for me so VRP would be more cost effective. I just spent about $30 doing the oil change on my Pilot with VRP. While doing that I spent $80 in oil sampling to get the old stuff tested so I can determine what works better for my use.

That might be the case that the VRP is marketed only for cleaning carbon buildup specially at the piston rings area but we can see people reporting that is doing more than just that, like removing sludge and slowly removing varnish too. Next oil change I will introduce 1 quart of the Valvoline in the mix, curious to see what happens.

 

[Sequoiasoon]

That might be the case that the VRP is marketed only for cleaning carbon buildup specially at the piston rings area but we can see people reporting that is doing more than just that, like removing sludge and slowly removing varnish too. Next oil change I will introduce 1 quart of the Valvoline in the mix, curious to see what happens.

Make sure you cut open this filter and then that one as a compare. You probably won't see anything in the oil and if spotless already through fill cap, not there either.

Some of those reports are coming from people that neglected prior. IMO Varnish happens from more regular conventional oil from things I have seen, even on clean "golden colored" motors. Sludge IMO more from lack of enough OCI's and some motors contributing more due to temperatures/design, not all can be prevented. My reading and learning is that appropriate OCI's with quality oil, syn or conventional takes care of preventing sludge for most part. OCI's adjusted based on tests and observations. Many that report junk from sludge concerns are using the VRP in hopes to correct other issues like oil burning.

 

[Triple_Se7en]

That might be the case that the VRP is marketed only for cleaning carbon buildup specially at the piston rings area but we can see people reporting that is doing more than just that, like removing sludge and slowly removing varnish too. Next oil change I will introduce 1 quart of the Valvoline in the mix, curious to see what happens.

One quart is useless. At an average of five quarts of oil per vehicle and Valvoline Inc asking for four OCIs of VRP, you would need to do 20 OCIs to see full effectiveness and that's just a poor guess. It's possible you will arrive at 0% effectiveness in your rings / pistons area.

Go whole hog or bow-out of this experiment, would be my suggestion.

 

[FlyingTexan]

When Valvoline offers a Youtube video on how four separate OCIs of this stuff progresses over time in a TGDI-sooty engine, I'll become more-of a believer.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Question is considering both valve cover gaskets were changed and the oil pan gasket too and the engine looks spotless top and bottom, where else can there be sludge hiding? I know the concern is always around the pistons area because that's where the magic happens but lets not forget that is the area that is constantly in motion and the oil gets to clean the most because of the constant friction. I knew the top was clean because every time I looked with flashlight trough the oil filler hole everything looked silver even before my worst oil change that was around 12K miles and almost 1 year duration ( never again I will do this mistake), however to be honest I was also at ease because of the leaks I had back then and I had to poor back in fresh oil from time to time, no more leaks now...

I just don't understand where can be sludge hiding when I don't even have the typical varnish yellowing on any metals. The mechanic showed me engine pics of his both older vehicles, he has the old Neon SRT and the older Tacoma and both engines were nice and clean but they did had varnish on them. He never uses full synthetic but always he chooses the top name brands for oil. In his mind he has zero concerns regarding the varnish and both of his vehicles are approaching 400K mark, yes varnish everywhere but spotless clean when it comes to sludge build up and my truck don't even have varnish...

Re: Your statement in bold in the 1s paragraph. That's not how it works. The piston ring pack can get deposits that cause them to stick and stop functioning properly. Being "constantly in motion and constant friction" has nothing to do with it.

If you don't want to watch the whole video, fast forward to around the 33:00 time mark. This is a prime example of an engine that is completely spotless inside, except for the ring pack - and it was obviously burning a lot of oil. This engine probably could have been saved by a product that removed those ring deposits and got the rings freely moving again.

 

[ZeeOSix]

That might be the case that the VRP is marketed only for cleaning carbon buildup specially at the piston rings area but we can see people reporting that is doing more than just that, like removing sludge and slowly removing varnish too. Next oil change I will introduce 1 quart of the Valvoline in the mix, curious to see what happens.

If you're going to try VRP, just do a complete oil change with it.

 

[soli]

Re: Your statement in bold in the 1s paragraph. That's not how it works. The piston ring pack can get deposits that cause them to stick and stop functioning properly. Being "constantly in motion and constant friction" has nothing to do with it.

If you don't want to watch the whole video, fast forward to around the 33:00 time mark. This is a prime example of an engine that is completely spotless inside, except for the ring pack - and it was obviously burning a lot of oil. This engine probably could have been saved by a product that removed those ring deposits and got the rings freely moving again.

Interestingly enough, what are the symptoms of stuck piston rings? loss of power? engine sound as if working harder than usual? burning oil noticed trough the smoky tail pipe? I have none of those symptoms, maybe you can pitch in other typical symptoms for stuck piston rings?

 

[MrStamper]

Been running VRP for the last 2 oil changes on a 2.0L turbo eco boost. Definitely quieter. Placebo effect probably lol. Will continue to use from here on out.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Interestingly enough, what are the symptoms of stuck piston rings? loss of power? engine sound as if working harder than usual? burning oil noticed trough the smoky tail pipe? I have none of those symptoms, maybe you can pitch in other typical symptoms for stuck piston rings?

Oil burning and possibly lower compression would be the main symptoms. The compression rings could also become stuck in a worse case scenario which would hurt compression and increase piston ring blow-by. Stuck piston rings is not going to cause the engine to create abnormal noises when running.

 

[ltslimjim]

Oil burning and possibly lower compression and excessive would be the main symptoms. The compression rings could also become stuck in a worse case scenario with would hurt compression and increase piston ring blow-by. Stuck piston rings is not going the engine to create abnormal noises when running.

Just to add, consumption may not be dramatic enough to cause black smoke from oil control rings not working properly. Usually, black smoke through the exhaust is associated with worn out valve stem seals, so would the primary method of oil burning in a “stuck oil control ring” scenario be from the combustion process itself?

 

[ZeeOSix]

... so would the primary method of oil burning in a “stuck oil control ring” scenario be from the combustion process itself?

If the oil control rings can't properly scrap the excess oil off the cylinder then that oil can get into the combustion chamber and get burned (see figure blow). So yes, in an extreme case you'd probably see oil smoke (typically blue-ish) coming out the exhaust pipe. But I've seen engines burn a decent amount of oil without really having obvious burned oil smoke out the exhaust pipe.

 

[ltslimjim]

If the oil control rings can't properly scrap the excess oil off the cylinder then that oil can get into the combustion chamber and get burned (see figure blow). So yes, in an extreme case you'd probably see oil smoke (typically blue-ish) coming out the exhaust pipe. But I've seen engines burn a decent amount of oil without really having obvious burned oil smoke out the exhaust pipe.

View attachment 262635

thank you. Yes, it seems less obvious and the video you posted had the perfect example. Nothing noticeably wrong with the engine until inspection of oil control ring function.

For this reason, I’m considering a swap over to R&P from Amsoil SS (early in a 2nd run but engine has well over 300k and consumes 1Qt/4k miles)…*IF* the consumption rate doesn’t improve the longer its on Amsoil SS.

 

[ZeeOSix]

thank you. Yes, it seems less obvious and the video you posted had the perfect example. Nothing noticeably wrong with the engine until inspection of oil control ring function.

For this reason, I’m considering a swap over to R&P from Amsoil SS (early in a 2nd run but engine has well over 300k and consumes 1Qt/4k miles)…*IF* the consumption rate doesn’t improve the longer its on Amsoil SS.

Yeah, that video is eye opening ... a insanely spotless engine inside, but the rings were all gunked up and stuck. Running VRP certainly isn't going to hurt anything, and if there are piston deposits regardless of how clean the rest of the engine is, it could still be beneficial.

 

[Fa24wrx]

This is little bit late me replying here considering I was interested in trying out Valvoline since my truck is 21 years old with 205K miles on it. Well I had some maintenance work done on it this past month and we did it in 3 stages because was too many things was due for maintenance like spark plugs replacement and cleaning, intake manifold cleaning, front and rear differential seals, injectors cleaning and replacement, leaking engine seals left and right, new clutch, new oil pump, new fuel pump, new throttle body, draining and refilling the transmission and power steering and only one thing left is draining and refilling the radiator and that didn't got done because they couldn't find the recommended antifreeze I opt for. I will order it online and have it done on a day I'm off from work.

Interestingly enough since they had to replace the oil pan seal the mechanic got the chance to see the engine from below and he was shocked of how clean it was that it took picture from it and showed me. There wasn't even mild varnish anywhere, everything was silver color.

Bear in mind even though I used the Mobil 1 EP, my last 7-8 oil changes back to back were shady around 8K-12K miles / 8-12 months intervals and only using the 5W20 version and while yes I get on the interstate from time to time I get stuck in traffic a lot and I'm constantly lugging loads.

From what I saw on the picture there is zero need for me to be using the Valvoline, actually I was shocked how spotless clean the engine was kept for the last 7-8 years considering the shady oil changes. What an impressive oil the Mobil 1 EP is, I'm glad I have been using it for the past 20 years. I did only one thing different with the oil change this time around, I bumped up on the viscosity to 5W-30 and probably that's not needed but after 21 years of service its time for richer viscosity and I will make sure no more shady oil changes and stick to the 3K miles oil changes as I was doing the first 12-13 years. I'm sticking with the Mobil 1 no doubt!

Pictures?

 

[mcrn]

The confusion comes from the fact that they haven’t really defined what that OCI is. As I have already said, there is a huge difference between four 3000 mile runs and four 10,000 mile runs.

I guess lower mileage oci would need more oil changes than those with longer oci's.

 

[ndarkside93]

P

I guess lower mileage oci would need more oil changes than those with longer oci's.

Possibly but there is no way to know for sure. As the OCI increases the additive package begins depleting so I’m not sure how much extra cleaning would be achieved in an extended OCI.

 

[soli]

Oil burning and possibly lower compression would be the main symptoms. The compression rings could also become stuck in a worse case scenario which would hurt compression and increase piston ring blow-by. Stuck piston rings is not going to cause the engine to create abnormal noises when running.

there is zero weird engine noise and literal zero blow by when I unscrew the oil cap and leave it on top of the opening, actually the cap wont even vibrate at all from the engine working