Valvoline - Myth vs Reality

Drew99GT · Jun 20, 2009

Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Originally Posted By: tropic
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
My Yaris doesnt like Valvoline Synpower....

You posted this in another recent thread, and I was hella curious why. I think you mentioned that others on YarisWorld had similar experiences. Would you mind elaborating a bit? I kinda like Synpower in my 4cyl engines.
I put the 10w-30 in. Slow revving, not smooth running. Seemed like more than just a "grade" issue. Plus it not a synthetic - I've had it paying $$$ for fake synthetics that arent a grp iv/v base. No More. America has been bamboozeled.

You do know that Mobil 1 does not contain all PAO. Just like Synpower, it is a mix of several different base stocks.

tropic · Jun 21, 2009

Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
I put the 10w-30 in. Slow revving, not smooth running. Seemed like more than just a "grade" issue. Plus it not a synthetic - I've had it paying $$$ for fake synthetics that arent a grp iv/v base. No More. America has been bamboozled.

Thanks for elaborating. The 5w-20 grade doesn't feel that way in my Civic at all. I agree that Grp.III oils shouldn't be sold as synthetics. Nothing to do with performance, just a matter of definitions.

chevrofreak · Jun 21, 2009

Group III is a synthetic synthetic.

wannafbody · Jun 21, 2009

Group III is a highly refined, pseudo synthetic.

tig1 · Jun 21, 2009

Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Originally Posted By: tropic
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
My Yaris doesnt like Valvoline Synpower....

You posted this in another recent thread, and I was hella curious why. I think you mentioned that others on YarisWorld had similar experiences. Would you mind elaborating a bit? I kinda like Synpower in my 4cyl engines.
I put the 10w-30 in. Slow revving, not smooth running. Seemed like more than just a "grade" issue. Plus it not a synthetic - I've had it paying $$$ for fake synthetics that arent a grp iv/v base. No More. America has been bamboozeled.

You do know that Mobil 1 does not contain all PAO. Just like Synpower, it is a mix of several different base stocks.

How can it be just like Valvoline when Valvoline is 4Xs better?

Art_Vandelay · Jun 21, 2009

Originally Posted By: tig1

How can it be just like Valvoline when Valvoline is 4Xs better?

Valvoline also wants oil changed 4 X faster. Every 3,000 miles to qualify for their warranty. We can go 10-15K on Mobil 1 regular and EP.

Nickdfresh · Jun 21, 2009

Originally Posted By: wannafbody
I wonder if this bad publicity is why M1 is offering rebates?

They offered it long before the Seq. IV thing, when the PAO plant in LA temporarily closed due to hurricanes...

Art_Vandelay · Jun 21, 2009

Originally Posted By: tropic
I agree that Grp.III oils shouldn't be sold as synthetics.

What would we call them? Modified conventional?

Bryanccfshr · Jun 21, 2009

High quality Grp III performs as equivelant to PAO. I think at this point it becomes a question of formulation.

tropic · Jun 22, 2009

Originally Posted By: Art_Vandelay
Originally Posted By: tropic
I agree that Grp.III oils shouldn't be sold as synthetics.

What would we call them? Modified conventional?

Dunno. I Can't Believe It's Not Synthetic!™ motor oil?

wgtoys · Jun 22, 2009

The PAO vs. Group III war is over. Remember the Japanese soldiers who were isolated on various Pacific islands and thought the war was still on? One soldier didn't surrender until 1975!

http://history1900s.about.com/od/worldwarii/a/soldiersurr_2.htm

The "real synthetic basestock" war is over. What matters is how well the oil performs, not whether the basestock started life as natural gas, crude oil or cow fat. (No lie, the heavily promoted G-Oil line of "American grown" lubricants uses beef tallow as the starting point.)

Soon we will have the "Cow Fat" vs. "Soybean Derived" lubricant wars.

Give it a rest fellas. You don't want to end up like poor Lt. Hiroo Onoda who in 1974 found himself suddenly facing reality: "I eased off the pack that I always carried with me and laid the gun on top of it. Would I really have no more use for this rifle that I had polished and cared for like a baby all these years? Or Kozuka's rifle, which I had hidden in a crevice in the rocks? Had the war really ended thirty years ago? If it had, what had Shimada and Kozuka died for? If what was happening was true, wouldn't it have been better if I had died with them?"

Big Jim · Jun 22, 2009

Originally Posted By: Bryanccfshr
High quality Grp III performs as equivelant to PAO. I think at this point it becomes a question of formulation.

I think that would be better stated as "nearly equivalent". PAO still has the edge in temperature extremes.

Bryanccfshr · Jun 22, 2009

For all practical purposes the difference can be adjusted for in additive packages, antioxidants etc. The real world difference is not measurable outside of a lab.

StevieC · Jun 22, 2009

Originally Posted By: tropic
Originally Posted By: Art_Vandelay
Originally Posted By: tropic
I agree that Grp.III oils shouldn't be sold as synthetics.

What would we call them? Modified conventional?

Dunno. I Can't Believe It's Not Synthetic!™ motor oil?

Art_Vandelay · Jun 22, 2009

Originally Posted By: wgtoys
The PAO vs. Group III war is over.

This war is about Conventional vs Group III Synthetic. Apparently it's over too. Since Valvoline is stating that conventional and Group III are near equal.

Is modern conventional closer to Group III, than Group III is to PAO?

addyguy · Jun 22, 2009

Quote:

"The test results were apparently not submitted to the API, and the API claims they do not know why Valvoline said the things they did about Mobil 1. What is Valvoline hiding?"

THAT statement, if true, worries me the most. May show Valvoline is no better than the others, throwing around impressive-sounding 'findings' that even THEY know can't be backed up properly.

THAT would explain why XOM never responded to the claim - they had nothing to worry about from it!

StevieC · Jun 22, 2009

Originally Posted By: addyguy
Quote:

"The test results were apparently not submitted to the API, and the API claims they do not know why Valvoline said the things they did about Mobil 1. What is Valvoline hiding?"

THAT statement, if true, worries me the most. May show Valvoline is no better than the others, throwing around impressive-sounding 'findings' that even THEY know can't be backed up properly.

THAT would explain why XOM never responded to the claim - they had nothing to worry about from it!

I'm sure it will come out in the wash...

I have a theory that XOM lawyers were on their way to the API to launch a complaint when their vehicles engines running M1 broke down and they didn't make it. They had their vehicles towed to the shop only to find all the Iron parts had disintegrated and sitting in the oil with 4 balls sitting on top of the engine laughing about it. They did a UOA and it found the FE to be 1,000,000 PPM. Shocked with the results they decided to drop the decision to drive to the API to call out Ashland on their claims!

Bill in Utah · Jun 22, 2009

Originally Posted By: addyguy
Quote:

"The test results were apparently not submitted to the API, and the API claims they do not know why Valvoline said the things they did about Mobil 1. What is Valvoline hiding?"

THAT statement, if true, worries me the most. May show Valvoline is no better than the others, throwing around impressive-sounding 'findings' that even THEY know can't be backed up properly.

THAT would explain why XOM never responded to the claim - they had nothing to worry about from it!

And IF that was true XOM would SUE Valvoline to the ends of the earth for damages.

Drew99GT · Jun 22, 2009

Originally Posted By: addyguy
Quote:

"The test results were apparently not submitted to the API, and the API claims they do not know why Valvoline said the things they did about Mobil 1. What is Valvoline hiding?"

They're not hiding anything! They don't have to submit a dam thing to the API. That is Exxon Mobil's job.

What Valvoline DID do was submit their testing results TO EXXON MOBIL!

Remember, the API does not directly test motor oil for compliance. They do random testing here and there, but it is up to the companies to independently test their product and submit the results to the API in order to put the API symbol on a bottle of oil.

Another poignant fact to remember: The API IS the oil companies. It's essentially the US trade union for the oil and natural gas industry. It's not like a government watch dog group that will come down with an iron fist when a members product is found not to meet spec! If it's found that a product is not meeting spec, they can continue holding their API license and continue displaying the API symbol on their product for months until results of new testing are submitted.

I for one, can't understand why some of you guys are so [censored] bent on not fathoming that a giant corporation like Exxon Mobil might have screwed up! They have before, and will likely screw up in the future, JUST LIKE EVERY multi national corporation!

It's not like corporations haven't produced inferior products in the past. I mean, this is just motor oil. Corporations have made some big oopsies in the past that have KILLED PEOPLE!

Art_Vandelay · Jun 22, 2009

Here's to Conventional!

Valvoline - Myth vs Reality

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