Using SuperTech full synthetic vs name brands

[wemay]

Agreed. It probably is not a full synthetic, it is Group II+ with some III to deliver performance levels similar to a low-end Group III based synthetic. Additive pack is probably the bare minimum.

I would consider it a 3-5K oil in a demanding application.

Highly unlikely but an interesting topic. If every brand could achieve performance levels of d1G2 with EHC, why would anyone use predominantly GrpIII to gain that approval. I use this spec as it's the most stringent seen on countless synthetics. It wouldn't make financial sense. A more likely scenario, IMO, would be oils labeled "Synthetic Blends" that do not carry d1G2 but do carry current API specs. All speculation of course.

 

[Rytautas]

Highly unlikely but an interesting topic. If every brand could achieve performance levels of d1G2 with EHC, why would anyone use predominantly GrpIII to gain that approval. I use this spec as it's the most stringent seen on countless synthetics. It wouldn't make financial sense. A more likely scenario, IMO, would be oils labeled "Synthetic Blends" that do not carry d1G2 but do carry current API specs. All speculation of course.

I was thinking along the same lines. If group 2 can be labeled synthetic why wouldn't other companies do so for synthetic blends like Valvoline maxlife red bottle etc

 

[gfh77665]

Wouldn't 5k oil changes be too early for synthetic? 5k is more like for syn blends or conventional

Thats right. If that same ST was labeled M1 or PP, people would not hesitate to suggest 10K miles intervals.

Thats what I suggest. 10K miles for ST synthetic and a quality filter. I have ran 10K intervals for years like this and never a problem.

 

[JTK]

ST has been my main go to oil for 15+ years, with some Napa and Amazon basics mixed in. I've got no data or high mileage experiences to share with it, other than I've never had a lubrication related failure. Boring! Lol.

 

[Astro14]

I was thinking along the same lines. If group 2 can be labeled synthetic why wouldn't other companies do so for synthetic blends like Valvoline maxlife red bottle etc

Where are you getting the idea that group 2 can be labeled synthetic?

 

[wemay]

Where are you getting the idea that group 2 can be labeled synthetic?

Read members, The Critic and 4WD post on the previous page. They brought up XOM EHC as possibly being ST Syn base oil. EHC is GrpII/GrpII+.

 

[4WD]

Read members, The Critic and 4WD post on the previous page. They brought up XOM EHC as possibly being ST Syn base oil. EHC is GrpII/GrpII+.

What requirements are there besides above 120 VI ? EHC-45 is advertising up to 119 as a base stock … and I have pasted what came up searching SK who provides tons of Grp3 … so take an economic combination of these two and a bulk purchase of a decent VM … I ask what is stopping them from calling a semi a synthetic or conventional depending on the final formula VI.
Not saying that does not make minimum standards … that is the target. Nothing more.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Agreed. It probably is not a full synthetic, it is Group II+ with some III to deliver performance levels similar to a low-end Group III based synthetic. Additive pack is probably the bare minimum.

I would consider it a 3-5K oil in a demanding application.

EHC 45 with its high pour point and high volatility isn't going to be in any synthetic formulation in any major %.

dang you posted the chart before I posted!

Spoiled my "go seek" funtime!

 

[4WD]

EHC 45 with its high pour point and high volatility isn't going to be in any synthetic formulation in any major %.

dang you posted the chart before I posted!

Spoiled my "go seek" funtime!

Nobody said it’s the majority base stock … it really can’t be … but when you crank out the volumes the private label companies do … it goes a long way at any percentage … and for the maker it’s one more tool in the mix of many.
The advertisement that Buster posted makes it clear it’s a cost saving enabler for Dexos … which many assume is synthetic. Now there is AC Delco … if P66 is producing Grp3 via hydroprocessing instead of hydrocracking … would they not still be using the VI as the definition of “synthetic”

 

[csandste]

Nobody said it’s the majority base stock … it really can’t be … but when you crank out the volumes the private label companies do … it goes a long way at any percentage … and for the maker it’s one more tool in the mix of many.
The advertisement that Buster posted makes it clear it’s a cost saving enabler for Dexos … which many assume is synthetic. Now there is AC Delco … if P66 is producing Grp3 via hydroprocessing instead of hydrocracking … would they not still be using the VI as the definition of “synthetic”

That wouldn't be my definition. Rather it would allow an SN+/SP oil to be less than approximately 50 percent group III.

 

[4WD]

That wouldn't be my definition. Rather it would allow an SN+/SP oil to be less than approximately 50 percent group III.

See what I said on the bing search and the SK Yubase piece popped up with “120”

 

[wemay]

Nobody said it’s the majority base stock … it really can’t be … but when you crank out the volumes the private label companies do … it goes a long way at any percentage … and for the maker it’s one more tool in the mix of many.
The advertisement that Buster posted makes it clear it’s a cost saving enabler for Dexos … which many assume is synthetic. Now there is AC Delco … if P66 is producing Grp3 via hydroprocessing instead of hydrocracking … would they not still be using the VI as the definition of “synthetic”

I doubt Warren Dist (Mag1, SuperTECH, Amazon Basics, Kirkland, Peak etc.) approaches M1, Pennzoil, Valvoline or Castrol in volume. At least not yet.

 

[The Critic]

Highly unlikely but an interesting topic. If every brand could achieve performance levels of d1G2 with EHC, why would anyone use predominantly GrpIII to gain that approval. I use this spec as it's the most stringent seen on countless synthetics. It wouldn't make financial sense. A more likely scenario, IMO, would be oils labeled "Synthetic Blends" that do not carry d1G2 but do carry current API specs. All speculation of course.

There are always different tiers. Some of the Dexos1 Gen2 oils have drain interval guarantees. EHC is probably being used by the generic label synthetics.

The generic market is huge, btw. Every jobber around here seems to have their own line of house brand oil.

 

[wemay]

Enabling excellence with EHC™ 45 and EHC™ 65 base stocks | ExxonMobil basestocks

EHC base oils are designed with the low-temperature properties, volatility and viscosities needed to cover a wide range of engine oil applications to meet the industry’s evolving specification requirements

www.exxonmobil.com

As seen in the previous diagram displayed in this thread (end of pg2), EHC 45 has a Noack of 15%. I doubt this base stock is used in dexos1 blends which require a Noack of 13%. And if used smaller percentages, would a PAO be needed to bring that 15% back down to a 13%? Wouldn't that offset the savings of using EHC to begin with? Again, i can see it being blended into current API spec'd oils, sure. But not blends that claim dexos approval.

 

[The Critic]

Enabling excellence with EHC™ 45 and EHC™ 65 base stocks | ExxonMobil basestocks

EHC base oils are designed with the low-temperature properties, volatility and viscosities needed to cover a wide range of engine oil applications to meet the industry’s evolving specification requirements

www.exxonmobil.com

View attachment 27385

Page 4:

https://www.exxonmobil.com/basestocks/~/media/files/global/us/basestocks/ehc-45-and-ehc-65--exxonmobil-base-stocks.pdf

 

[4WD]

The thicker stuff is going in Delvac Super and competition lubes

 

[wemay]

Page 4:

https://www.exxonmobil.com/basestocks/~/media/files/global/us/basestocks/ehc-45-and-ehc-65--exxonmobil-base-stocks.pdf

Great find, i stand corrected. Thanks

 

[UncleDave]

the certs on the back of the bottle are more important than the name on the front.

UD

 

[The Critic]

the certs on the back of the bottle are more important than the name on the front.

UD

True, but you can meet a spec, and you can also exceed it.

I don't think it would be fair to state that Mobil 1 EP does not offer any performance advantage over a house brand synthetic.

 

[CKN]

True, but you can meet a spec, and you can also exceed it.

I don't think it would be fair to state that Mobil 1 EP does not offer any performance advantage over a house brand synthetic.

True-but until somebody can prove a motor will last substantially longer using an oil that "exceeds the spec". verses just "meeting it" I'm just reaching for the cheapest "Dexos Approved" oil-in my particular instance.