Using Permatex to seal an oil pump

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radbitog

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I have a 1999 Toyota Camry with a 5S-FE motor that I recently did a timing belt, water pump, and oil pump seals job on over last weekend. The oil pump seal was a bit leaking, and after removing the oil pump I found the previous job from ~10 years ago had used the spaghetti rubber gasket and also smeared permatex grey around the seal. See pictures below. I removed that and used a new spaghetti rubber seal and just some shin-etsu silicone to hold it in place. It leaks much more now, like a drop a second at 1000 rpm, and increases with rpm.

8F3YPfl.jpeg


You can see the line of RTV around the outer housing.

2Vci0vT.jpg


You can see the bits of grey permatex that were stuck around the inside rim of the oil pump it from the last job. Gross! The last installer was very messy with it!


So I ordered in a can of Permatex Ultra Black in a power bead can. I was thinking of just laying a bead to fill in that groove and trying that? Do you think it would be effective at sealing the oil pump, with all due caution taken while sealing it? Here's a picture of the can:

oRaYqlX.png
 
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On a critical job like that which takes a lot of work to do (and redo), I use only the the manufacturer’s specified product (Toyota FPG?) or a well known identical substitute such as Honda Ultra Flange II or Permatex Great Stuff. I’ve replaced several oil pumps with those products and none have ever leaked afterwards.

Does this application use an RTV or a gasket?
 
Good luck. Those parts have be cleaned up a lot more than that, and there are better suited products. I'm interested in seeing what our resident experts recommend. Subscribed.
 
Is this vehicle a part of your personal collection or the one you manage?

You need to stick with the grey RTV because its alien approved due to its ability to maintain integrity when exposed to "nucular" radiation.
 
@kschachn Permatex ultra black (oil resistant) seems equivalent to that. The oil pump uses a rubber gasket (pic below), the last mechanic in there added lots of RTV around it but it wasn't a perfect seal. And after my removal and install, the pump or rubber gasket may have been accidentally deformed.

HpP7eb9.png


@demarpaint those pictures were prior to cleaning. I have cleaned it carefully using degreaser, razor blades, and q-tips.

@ABN_CBT_ENGR It's my mom's car. I've put a lot of new parts and hours of work on it. Michelin tires, KYB struts, new brakes.
 
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Clean it well, very well, wipe the channel with alcohol and dry it. Apply a thin bead of Hylomar M uniformly in the channel, inset the sealing rubber gasket and put a thin film of the Hylomar over that and install. You dont have to rush it does not set but it does seal better than any RTV on jobs like this.

Do not install the front seal in the pump prior to mounting it, installing it on the shaft can and often does knock the garter spring out of place causing a leak.
Install it after the pump is mounted with a bead of the Hylomar around the outside of the seal.
Look for wear on the snout if there is a wear groove you need to use a sleeve. If this is using a Teflon seal it is imperative there is no wear mark and installation instructions be followed to the letter, if any marks on the shaft you use an FKM seal instead.

Get some and keep it supply.

www.ebay.com

Hylomar M 2.7 Oz Tube - 61324 | eBay

Hylomar® M. Hylomar M is resistant to a wide range of fluids, including all industrial fuels, oils, water, brine, air, turbine & piston engine. Hylomar M can be used to seal joint faces or threaded components and can be used as a form in place sealant to replace a.
www.ebay.com

Permatex has a similar product, not the same but I cannot vouch for its quality or how it performs but it is probably more available locally.
 
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Yah-Tah-Hey said:
Right on K. That O-ring type gasket should be all that's needed if it was made for the application.
Click to expand...

Someone had been in here before, if they got a nick in the surface its game over, leak city. RTV isn't always the answer, excess RTV can and has broke loose and plug an oil galley (ask the Subaru guys) in their case an aerobic is the right answer although RTV is spec. Hylomar will not solidify and break free and will address any surface imperfections harmlessly when used as a dressing.
 
Does anyone still use permatex 2 or 3 in cases like this?. I've had luck in the past with not so perfect mating surfaces around the pre made rubber gaskets. A gasket maker isn't really needed in some cases, just a sealant.
 
Mazomopar said:
Does anyone still use permatex 2 or 3 in cases like this?. I've had luck in the past with not so perfect mating surfaces around the pre made rubber gaskets. A gasket maker isn't really needed in some cases, just a sealant.
Click to expand...

Yes, if it's not a ruined surface that requires an FIPG, I use #3 (aka "aviation") and never have issues. Unless you HAVE to use an FIPG, I vastly prefer this as if you need to go in again in the future, it's saves SO much labor on cleaning/prepping the surfaces again.
 
I've used Permatex 2 since before RTV. IMO RTV is overkill, and can travel. Best used in lieu of a real gasket. Applied perfectly by a robot:cool:
 
And in cases like this I take a small 8 inch stainless rule and gently slide it on edge across the faces looking for high spots. And I've learned to use my small 1/4 inch torque wrench for the bolts. Seems like I have less chance of over doing it.
 
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