2017 VW Golf All Track Water Pump Replacement

[Boomer]

The VW dealer diagnosed a leaking thermostat gasket on my 2017 VW All Track and wanted too much repair money for a car that is almost 9-1/2 years old. So I took it to a local independent VW shop where I live that gets good reviews. I told them to replace the thermostat, the water pump and its drive belt and the serpentine belt and tensioner. Stopped by this PM to check and this was the pump they took off. As you can see, it had leaked from two areas. This was in addition to the thermostat gasket leaking.. They replaced the pump with a German made all aluminum pump. The car would have been ready to pick up but the parts folks sent the wrong serpentine belt. So I will get it back tomorrow.

I really have no experience with these water pumps but the shop owner said when I brought it in that he would find leaks. He was right. He said that he had switched over to the all aluminum pumps a few years ago and they last longer with no leaks. Time will tell!

So enjow the picture and see how complicated the Germans have made a simple water pump! (I am sure other brands are now just as bad.)

 

[Trav]

Did you buy that car new?

 

[D60]

Excuse me sir, you've confused a water pump with a Ninja food processor

 

[scrllock]

I really have no experience with these water pumps but the shop owner said when I brought it in that he would find leaks. He was right. He said that he had switched over to the all aluminum pumps a few years ago and they last longer with no leaks.

The water pump (the aluminum plate and impeller on the left) has almost nothing to do with the leaking. Some old ones had a plastic impeller which sure, might fail, but that's not the source of leaks here.

The thermostat housing is plastic, will warp, and that's the source of almost all leaks. There's some people working on aftermarket aluminum housings to solve this, but I wouldn't expect any of the current options to be any better than the others. Sometimes you also see leaks from the unions that attach to the outlets, unfortunately also warpable plastic. The aftermarket is slowly releasing aluminum replacements but there are quite a few very specific unions depending on the transmission, whether the car has an aux rad, aux coolant pump, etc.

 

[edyvw]

Did you buy that car new?

My question too.
Though I sold CC with the original pump at 126k, no leaks yet!

 

[Boomer]

Yep, bought it new. Meticulously maintained. Car has been a champ. Been from PA to Nebraska and South Dakota, St. Augustine FL, ten trips to Tioga in northern PA (I live in central PA so the trip is about 250 miles roundtrip) and several trips to the Delaware beaches. Lots of 25 mile trips to State College over those years to see doctors and shop and visit with our son and his family.

Problem is I could not see the top of the water pump when it was in the car. I will have to keep my eye on the Passat as it ages. It is almost 7 years old.

 

[Boomer]

Took apart the pump. It has a small electric motor that drives a worm gear that ultimately drives a gear that turns a ball valve to allow coolant to flow through a different passage. The motor receives it signals from a small circuit board inside the pump. A pretty complicated mechanism for a water pump. Helps me understand why these guys had trouble servicing tanks and other vehicles on the Russian front!!!!

 

[skyactiv]

There is a right way and a wrong way to replace that water pump. You are working blind replacing it without removing the intake manifold and the replacement pump often doesn't last as long when using the shortcut method to replace it.

 

[scrllock]

There is a right way and a wrong way to replace that water pump. You are working blind replacing it without removing the intake manifold and the replacement pump often doesn't last as long when using the shortcut method to replace it.

There's nothing wrong with leaving the intake manifold on. You just remove the fan shroud instead, which gives you a lot more visibility than you'd think, for the low effort of a couple connectors and bolts.

The shortcuts that will cause leaks are not thoroughly cleaning the gasket surface on the block and not torquing it down correctly. Very simply, you just need to have an even, clean seal.

Nothing about that will affect the pump itself. It's actually pretty simple, just a gear driven off a belt attached to the balance shaft.
@Boomer is confusing it with the thermostat, which is overcomplicated.

 

[andrew_j]

I ran into same repair on our 2018 Tiguan with 209k recently. The electric solenoid thermostat failed however water pump was fine no leaks. Independent pulled intake manifold to replace entire assembly.

 

[Trav]

AFAIK only Graf and a couple of others made an all metal pump and thermostat unit but not for this one. OE has always been a metal pump body with plastic housing. when using plastic ones use OE only. With the intake off it is a good time to clean or replace (prices are cheap for these) the injectors and walnut blast the intake. doing the service while it is apart will go a long way in keeping small issues from getting bigger.

 

[D60]

AFAIK only Graf and a couple of others made an all metal pump and thermostat unit but not for this one. OE has always been a metal pump body with plastic housing. when using plastic ones use OE only. With the intake off it is a good time to clean or replace (prices are cheap for these) the injectors and walnut blast the intake. doing the service while it is apart will go a long way in keeping small issues from getting bigger.

How are Graf and Saleri? I had never heard of either until shopping for a BMW water pump yesterday.

Obviously I don't hang in euro circles -- I'm just not that cool

 

[kschachn]

How are Graf and Saleri? I had never heard of either until shopping for a BMW water pump yesterday.

Obviously I don't hang in euro circles -- I'm just not that cool

I was never especially impressed about Graf for my BMW that ate water pumps for breakfast, however the Saleri did seem to be better in longevity. But I bought an INA/Schaeffler for my Tiguan since it was the least expensive on Rock Auto and all the cool kids on the Internet said it was the same as the OEM pump (which I would agree with).

 

[Trav]

For VW/Audi EA series engines I like the Graf or Geba all aluminum for BMW and MB Hepu, Saleri or Geba. The Graf is made in Italy the Hepu and Geba are made in Germany. The Saleri are made in Germany or Italy. Generally all are good brands some models from the brands are better than others.
INA, Pierburg, Kolbenschmidt can be sketchy depending on where you buy them and that includes big name Euro retailers. Most are made in china now which is not the problem, the problem is is it a genuine INA for example or an INA knock off sold at these Chinese parts markets to distributors in the US and Europe to be sold as genuine.

I order these brand from an authorized Rheinmetall automotive dealer in Germany, they direct import them from their own factories but it is getting much more expensive than it ever was.

 

[scrllock]

AFAIK only Graf and a couple of others made an all metal pump and thermostat unit but not for this one. OE has always been a metal pump body with plastic housing. when using plastic ones use OE only. With the intake off it is a good time to clean or replace (prices are cheap for these) the injectors and walnut blast the intake. doing the service while it is apart will go a long way in keeping small issues from getting bigger.

Yeah, there's no legit all metal housing for the gen3 yet. There are some alibaba units but I don't know anyone who's used one, and the teardowns I've seen show that the thermostat functionality has essentially been removed, and the controller replaced with a dummy unit that just keeps the ECU happy.

Those teardowns were from a guy who's trying to develop his own solution, I assume it will end up being rather expensive, someone will copy the design, and we'll end up with a slightly mediocre option somewhere in the middle.

I was never especially impressed about Graf for my BMW that ate water pumps for breakfast, however the Saleri did seem to be better in longevity. But I bought an INA/Schaeffler for my Tiguan since it was the least expensive on Rock Auto and all the cool kids on the Internet said it was the same as the OEM pump (which I would agree with).

I bought INA last time and it looks identical to the OEM unit that came with the engine. I bought an OE oil cooler union though, INA includes their own and it is 100% not sized properly, have heard they leak as a result.

One of the key things is the thermostat controller itself, the OE one is made by continental (same on INA) and should handle high heat no problem. The cheaper clones do not use automotive-friendly PCBs, wouldn't surprise me if they don't leak but just start throwing codes after a few months.

 

[Andyd95]

Gen 1/2 TSI - I prefer OE, however if aftermarket metal I’ve have had much better results with Geba than than Graf.
Gen 3 TSI - INA pumps for sure.

In either case OE unions, the supplied or WorldPac unions aren’t the greatest

 

[Trav]

Graf, Geba, Hepu all have metal impellers I have put all of them in cars at some point, one is a Graf with over 130K on it and still going so IMO they cant be too bad. One trick to these things is using OE housing to block seals.

 

[Marcozi]

AFAIK only Graf and a couple of others made an all metal pump and thermostat unit but not for this one. OE has always been a metal pump body with plastic housing. when using plastic ones use OE only. With the intake off it is a good time to clean or replace (prices are cheap for these) the injectors and walnut blast the intake. doing the service while it is apart will go a long way in keeping small issues from getting bigger.

Corollary: the installation of aftermarket cooling system parts is strictly verboten!

 

[andrew_j]

The plastic water pump housing in on my 18 Tiguan was working fine at 220k when replaced, the associated electric thermostat failed that was in same housing. Is it common that plastic housing actually fails?

 

[scrllock]

The plastic water pump housing in on my 18 Tiguan was working fine at 220k when replaced, the associated electric thermostat failed that was in same housing. Is it common that plastic housing actually fails?

yes, it's almost always the thermostat housing. in OP's picture, that's the entire black piece. what most people refer to as the water pump is the aluminum section on the left, including the sprocket.