Using C3 Oil in C2 Car

[jtay2024]

Hi there.

I have a car that uses C2 oil as standard. From what I have read online, the only real difference I can see between C2 and C3 is that C3 has a higher HTHS rating.

From what I can tell, this drops MPG by about 0.4-0.7% (According to an oil manufacture website), but gains higher engine protection and stronger film strength.

I'd happily give up 0.5% or so MPG to know that my turbo bearings, timing chain, cylinder bores etc are protected with a higher film strength oil.

What are peoples thoughts? Does my logic stack up here?

Thanks in Advance.

 

[Deleted member 89374]

Make, model, year, and powertrain of the vehicle would be useful information.

The short answer is: yes, you may use C3 motor oil in place of C2.

 

[kebabaluba]

I`d sacrifice a bit of mpg to have proper engine protection. Use it...

 

[blufeb95]

C3 is just a thicker C2, from what I can recall there are more stringent manufacturer approvals based on C3 than C2, so whatever you find that's C3 may be better than what you can find that's C2 because the C3 lubricant is formulated to meet/exceed MB229.51/229.52, BMW LL-04. VW 504/507, etc.. Whereas something that's C2 is likely to carry less stringent manufacturer approvals or just be formulated to meet baseline C2 requirements.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Hi there.

I have a car that uses C2 oil as standard. From what I have read online, the only real difference I can see between C2 and C3 is that C3 has a higher HTHS rating.

From what I can tell, this drops MPG by about 0.4-0.7% (According to an oil manufacture website), but gains higher engine protection and stronger film strength.

I'd happily give up 0.5% or so MPG to know that my turbo bearings, timing chain, cylinder bores etc are protected with a higher film strength oil.

What are peoples thoughts? Does my logic stack up here?

Thanks in Advance.

As far as the ACEA is concerned the only difference is that C2 contains a fuel economy test which the majority of automakers achieve by reducing the HTHS under 3.5 but no less than 2.9.

Mobil 1 ESP 5w30 is a C3 oil which also meets the FE test of C2.

Unless you're driving on at autobahn speeds, tracking, etc. you're not really gaining too much using C3 over C2.

https://www.acea.auto/files/2021_ACEA_oil_sequences_light-duty_engines.pdf

 

[jtay2024]

Make, model, year, and powertrain of the vehicle would be useful information.

The short answer is: yes, you may use C3 motor oil in place of C2.

View attachment 159049

This is a very interesting website! Great for comparisons. It does however show that there is no improvement for wear on C3 over C2 which seems odd to me considering what I've read.

The fuel economy does as expected going from C2 to C3.

The car is a Honda Civic 1.6 I-DTEC. 112hp. Probably going to be remapped though in the future so I will want to keep it well maintained.

 

[jtay2024]

Looking at that website it would seem that VW504.00 would be the most perfect oil I could use. I'd drop a slight MPG amount, but the protection appears to be the highest possible really according to the graphs.

 

[kschachn]

Looking at that website it would seem that VW504.00 would be the most perfect oil I could use. I'd drop a slight MPG amount, but the protection appears to be the highest possible really according to the graphs.

You can’t use spider charts like that across approvals. It says so on the website.

Plus they are areas of emphasis not absolute numbers. But yes VW 504 00 is a pretty demanding approval.

 

[Deleted member 89374]

Looking at that website it would seem that VW504.00 would be the most perfect oil I could use. I'd drop a slight MPG amount, but the protection appears to be the highest possible really according to the graphs.

To illustrate @kschachn's point

You can’t use spider charts like that across approvals. It says so on the website.

Plus they are areas of emphasis not absolute numbers.

Take a look at the following chart

You can't run 0W-20 MB 229.71 in a Porsche GT3 RS and run laps around the Nürburgring. However, you can do so with Mobil 1 FS 5W-50, which is Porsche A40 approved.

 

[jtay2024]

You can’t use spider charts like that across approvals. It says so on the website.

Plus they are areas of emphasis not absolute numbers. But yes VW 504 00 is a pretty demanding approval.

Oh, that seems a bit pointless in that case then.

*Edit* - I suppose it's not for comparing branded oil requirements as those are much more detailed than just an ACEA rating.

It looks to me though, that in general, a 504/507 oil will always hit the C2 and C3 rating requirement.

An interesting one I found was C4. It appears to be just as good as c3, but has better care for after treatment systems such as DPFs. As mine has a DPF that maybe beneficial. It has a lower MPG rating than C2 but that doesn't bother me at all.

 

[jtay2024]

Judging by all the extreme specs this meets (VW 504/507, MB229.51/2, and Porsche C30) I would think this would probably be one of THE best oils for my car.

Shell Helix Ultra ECT C2/C3 0w-30 Car Engine Oil

The UK's largest independent supplier of automotive oils, fluid and parts. We've products to suit any vehicle, from full blown Race / Track weapons, to Daily Drivers looking to save money. Plus FREE expert advice & recommendations - OPIE KNOW OILS

www.opieoils.co.uk

 

[kschachn]

It looks to me though, that in general, a 504/507 oil will always hit the C2 and C3 rating requirement.

That’s because nearly all European manufacturer approvals have an ACEA Sequence as a base.

 

[kschachn]

Judging by all the extreme specs this meets (VW 504/507, MB229.51/2, and Porsche C30) I would think this would probably be one of THE best oils for my car.

Shell Helix Ultra ECT C2/C3 0w-30 Car Engine Oil

The UK's largest independent supplier of automotive oils, fluid and parts. We've products to suit any vehicle, from full blown Race / Track weapons, to Daily Drivers looking to save money. Plus FREE expert advice & recommendations - OPIE KNOW OILS

www.opieoils.co.uk

Yes, that is a global flagship oil.

 

[Deleted member 89374]

That’s because nearly all European manufacturer approvals have an ACEA Sequence as a base.

That’s because nearly all European manufacturer approvals have an ACEA Sequence as a base.

 

[kschachn]

That’s because nearly all European manufacturer approvals have an ACEA Sequence as a base.

Well I think there are some weird ones that don't. I remember something like a Renault or one of the specifications (not an approval anyway).

 

[dubber09]

Yes, that is a global flagship oil.

That's basically the same oil as Pennzoil Euro LX / QS Euro LX, which I happen to use lately

 

[kschachn]

That's basically the same oil as Pennzoil Euro LX / QS Euro LX, which I happen to use lately

Yeah I’ve been using a lot of the Euro L lately, given the price and easy availability.

 

[SureshR]

Well I think there are some weird ones that don't. I remember something like a Renault or one of the specifications (not an approval anyway).

Renault roughly parallels acea as well in that a c3 won’t hurt a Renault. Not too many manufacturers seem to list compatibility with it though - but those that do have specs that also support eg vw 504/507

 

[dubber09]

Yeah I’ve been using a lot of the Euro L lately, given the price and easy availability.

Euro L is NOT same oil as Euro LX and Shell Helix Ultra ECT C2/C3.

 

[kschachn]

Euro L is NOT same oil as Euro LX and Shell Helix Ultra ECT C2/C3.

No I know that, thanks. I was only commenting on the brand.