Using an oil slightly out of spec?

[Olsey80]

Hi all,

I’m hoping someone can guide me on whether it’s ok to use an oil that is slightly out of the spec to what the vehicle manufacturer states? The reason for asking is that I’m struggling to find the right spec oil in any of brands available here in Qatar, Middle East at a reasonable price.

I imported a 2016 Land Rover 110 TD4 Hardtop into Qatar, Middle East from the UK late last year. Land Rover specifies 5w-30 Ford WSS-M2C-913-B (or C) standard oil for non-DPF Defenders. 5w-30 Ford WSS-M2C-934-B is used for DPF models, which I could use as well. My Defender has had the DPF removed, as the vehicle is now not in the UK or EU. Note Land Rover put in a Ford dura torque 2.2l turbo Diesel engine, commonly used in Ford Transit vans, hence the reference to Ford in the spec.

I can access Castrol Edge 5w-30 from the Land Rover dealership here that apparently is in spec (though I haven’t seen the bottle) but they’re going to charge me four times the price compared to Castrol Edge 5w-30 A3/B3 found at the local auto store. Also, they only sell the oil in one-litre bottles.

Looking at another brand, Liqui-Moly has a Special Tec 5w-30 AA (Ford WSS-M2C-946-A or B1) or LL (ACEA A3/B4). However, I need Special Tec 5w-30 (Ford WSS-M2C-913A or B, ACEA A1/B1) or Special Tec F 5w-30 (Ford WSS-M2C-913A or B, ACEA A5).

There are many other brands here (Motul, Shell, Eni etc…) but again, no luck with the right spec.

I had a search in the UAE as well but it looks like they have pretty much the same oils available. The majority of oils here are similar to the what’s available in the American market.

What would I expect from using an oil that isn’t to spec? Poor fuel economy? greater engine wear? A major failure at some point?

Am I overthinking it here and I should not have any issues with using 5w-30 oil that doesn’t meet the spec? Or should I just take the exorbitant price from the stealership, as the wrong spec oil could lead to engine problems?

Cheers,
Tim

 

[CleanSump]

Your vehicle is deleted. You are free to run any diesel rated oil you wish.

 

[Kira]

What property does the specced oil provide to DPF equipped engines?

 

[CleanSump]

What property does the specced oil provide to DPF equipped engines?

low SAPS

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Does Land Rover sell this vehicle with a DPF in Qatar?

Any A3/B4 (LL01, Porsche A40, Mercedes 229.50) will be fine. Same goes for ACEA C3 (229.51, 504/507, LL04, Porsche C30).

 

[Panos]

913A, B or C are outdated and replaced by 913D, which is an ACEA A5 spec but stricter for long drain intervals. It is high SAPS formulation and higher ZDDP than normal. Also requires TBN to be higher than 10

 

[Olsey80]

Does Land Rover sell this vehicle with a DPF in Qatar?

Any A3/B4 (LL01, Porsche A40, Mercedes 229.50) will be fine. Same goes for ACEA C3 (229.51, 504/507, LL04, Porsche C30).

No, DPF models (Euro5 spec) were only sold in the UK & EU. Non-DPF models (EURO4 spec) models were sold as Rest-of-World (ROW) spec to all other countries.

Thanks for assurance that any A3/B4 or ACEA C3 spec oils will be fine.

 

[Olsey80]

Your vehicle is deleted. You are free to run any diesel rated oil you wish.

Cheers!

 

[Michelada]

Is your motive poisoning peoples lungs on purpose or why did you remove the DPF? Do your realize that you are contaminating hundreds of times more than without It? Just to save a maximum of 2 % in your motoring costs...

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Is your motive poisoning peoples lungs on purpose or why did you remove the DPF? Do your realize that you are contaminating hundreds of times more than without It? Just to save a maximum of 2 % in your motoring costs...

OP vehicle isn't deleted. DPF wasn't required for his country.

 

[Vermess]

Is your motive poisoning peoples lungs on purpose or why did you remove the DPF? Do your realize that you are contaminating hundreds of times more than without It? Just to save a maximum of 2 % in your motoring costs...

Do your research on DPF before spilling nonsense. What is a dpf made of, what it costs to manufacture both in cost and pollution vs what it saves.

Hint, it does not break even.

 

[Vermess]

@Olsey80 make sure that whatever you choose is suited for your temp. Personally I'd go with an HTHS if 3.6 or higher. Look for A40, LL01, 229.5 oils.

 

[Michelada]

Do your research on DPF before spilling nonsense. What is a dpf made of, what it costs to manufacture both in cost and pollution vs what it saves.

Hint, it does not break even.

Well I'm a college educated mechanic (3 years). University educated Automotive Engineer B. Sc. (4 years). 27 year of automotive experience. I might know a thing or two about this subject, mostly by learning on my own initiative though. His vehicle had a DPF from the factory, so I don't see why you had to come up with that nonsense at all. Anyway, it costs what it costs. There's no way to significantly reduce toxic local particulate emissions other than a DPF. Producing the DPF doesn't cause any significant amount of toxic particulate emissions, so it saves about 100 %. You are not comparing apples to apples at all here. For my vehicle it costs 180 € as a spare part. I'd say the cost for the manufacturer is about 100 € with all the related systems (The price of a multilink rear suspension vs. a beam axle on VAG cars is 100 €, and this is very comparable. They deleted the multilink suspension on many models for that 100 €). So it is significant, but very much cheaper than reducing NOX emissions for example. Operating costs are about 2 % higher, due to the slightly higher fuel consumption and more expensive motor oil (The latter is no longer significantly more expensive). I looked at the particle emission data for a 2011 Audi A5 with and without a DPF. The figure for the former is 0,96 g/km and for the latter it's 0,001 g/km. That's a 96 fold increase, and we are not even talking a jerry-rigged vehicle here, where the difference is likely many times higher.

 

[kschachn]

Okay.

 

[gogydm]

Well I'm a college educated mechanic (3 years). University educated Automotive Engineer B. Sc. (4 years). 27 year of automotive experience. I might know a thing or two about this subject, mostly by learning on my own initiative though. His vehicle had a DPF from the factory, so I don't see why you had to come up with that nonsense at all. Anyway, it costs what it costs. There's no way to significantly reduce toxic local particulate emissions other than a DPF. Producing the DPF doesn't cause any significant amount of toxic particulate emissions, so it saves about 100 %. You are not comparing apples to apples at all here. For my vehicle it costs 180 € as a spare part. I'd say the cost for the manufacturer is about 100 € with all the related systems (The price of a multilink rear suspension vs. a beam axle on VAG cars is 100 €, and this is very comparable. They deleted the multilink suspension on many models for that 100 €). So it is significant, but very much cheaper than reducing NOX emissions for example. Operating costs are about 2 % higher, due to the slightly higher fuel consumption and more expensive motor oil (The latter is no longer significantly more expensive). I looked at the particle emission data for a 2011 Audi A5 with and without a DPF. The figure for the former is 0,96 g/km and for the latter it's 0,001 g/km. That's a 96 fold increase, and we are not even talking a jerry-rigged vehicle here, where the difference is likely many times higher.

I'm having a hard time believing it's 180 euros for a DPF filter. Can you show me? I know what it cost on my 407 2.0 HDi. Also, I did a gas analysis on my 407 before and after an EGR and FAP delete (catalyst still stayed) with an HDi Tuning UK remap and the numbers were about the same. The remap made the car produce less smoke under full throttle, unlike most VAG tunes I've seen done by just dumping more fuel. The main issue was the quality of diesel in Eastern Europe, the car ran better and cleaner with good fuel, which should not be surprising anyone. Fuel quality was the main issue with clogging my exhaust system components in the first place.

 

[edyvw]

Do your research on DPF before spilling nonsense. What is a dpf made of, what it costs to manufacture both in cost and pollution vs what it saves.

Hint, it does not break even.

Yes it does. These things are known for decades.
Everything costs to manufacture. Any product that is manufactured has a pollution impact, ANY! You are writing your post on a product that includes involuntary workers, underpaid workers, and probably some people imprisoned in West China. Yet, here we are.
The question is, what is the impact on the environment without or with that product? And that is answered long time ago.

 

[edyvw]

I'm having a hard time believing it's 180 euros for a DPF filter. Can you show me? I know what it cost on my 407 2.0 HDi. Also, I did a gas analysis on my 407 before and after an EGR and FAP delete (catalyst still stayed) with an HDi Tuning UK remap and the numbers were about the same. The remap made the car produce less smoke under full throttle, unlike most VAG tunes I've seen done by just dumping more fuel. The main issue was the quality of diesel in Eastern Europe, the car ran better and cleaner with good fuel, which should not be surprising anyone. Fuel quality was the main issue with clogging my exhaust system components in the first place.

When it comes to emissions eyballing is definitely not way to calculate emissions.
Did you actually measure Co2, NOx, soot levels?

 

[Vermess]

Yes it does. These things are known for decades.
Everything costs to manufacture. Any product that is manufactured has a pollution impact, ANY! You are writing your post on a product that includes involuntary workers, underpaid workers, and probably some people imprisoned in West China. Yet, here we are.
The question is, what is the impact on the environment without or with that product? And that is answered long time ago.

At what mileage?? I sent you a PM.

The ducted fuel injector will change the game when it comes to diesel pollution. Exponentially more than any "filter"

 

[Graham Piccinini]

Well I'm a college educated mechanic (3 years). University educated Automotive Engineer B. Sc. (4 years). 27 year of automotive experience. I might know a thing or two about this subject, mostly by learning on my own initiative though. His vehicle had a DPF from the factory, so I don't see why you had to come up with that nonsense at all. Anyway, it costs what it costs. There's no way to significantly reduce toxic local particulate emissions other than a DPF. Producing the DPF doesn't cause any significant amount of toxic particulate emissions, so it saves about 100 %. You are not comparing apples to apples at all here. For my vehicle it costs 180 € as a spare part. I'd say the cost for the manufacturer is about 100 € with all the related systems (The price of a multilink rear suspension vs. a beam axle on VAG cars is 100 €, and this is very comparable. They deleted the multilink suspension on many models for that 100 €). So it is significant, but very much cheaper than reducing NOX emissions for example. Operating costs are about 2 % higher, due to the slightly higher fuel consumption and more expensive motor oil (The latter is no longer significantly more expensive). I looked at the particle emission data for a 2011 Audi A5 with and without a DPF. The figure for the former is 0,96 g/km and for the latter it's 0,001 g/km. That's a 96 fold increase, and we are not even talking a jerry-rigged vehicle here, where the difference is likely many times higher.

You must be related to that RAT 540 fella...

 

[gogydm]

When it comes to emissions eyballing is definitely not way to calculate emissions.
Did you actually measure Co2, NOx, soot levels?

Eyeballing is only the soot coming out of the tailpipe. The aforementioned parameters were measured with the appropriate tools in a licensed for the job garage. It was supposed to comply with Euro 4 standards with all the components in place and it still did with no issues without them.