Used Toyota Mirais, 90% depreciation (Hydrogen Fuel Cell Vehicle), ICE / BEV conversion candidate?

Astro14 said:
Seems to me that there are 3 problems.
1. Hydrogen source
2. Hydrogen storage
3. Hydrogen compression to refuel

If I had a lot more money, and a bit more time, I would be all in - who doesn’t want to build a solar panel powered hydrolysis set-up, then run their car for “Free”?

I’m looking at you @JeffKeryk - this challenge needs abundant electricity, and some technical capability. You just need to solve the compression part… 😎
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Astro, is this for home fueling, or are you anticipating scope creep? Do I have to plan for Silicon Valley or all of CA, US and beyond?
 
JeffKeryk said:
Astro, is this for home fueling, or are you anticipating scope creep? Do I have to plan for Silicon Valley or all of CA, US and beyond?
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This is for you, and you alone. No scope creep. You have abundant, inexpensive electricity - so electrolysis becomes viable.

For most of us, the cost of sourcing the hydrogen is cost-prohibitive. The rest is simply unrealistic given the cost of the raw material, but for you…
 
Pretty sure most hydrogen is produced during petroleum refining, not electrolysis. Refineries use hydrogen during cracking and treating phases. They make hydrogen by cracking methane, too.
 
Astro14 said:
This is for you, and you alone. No scope creep. You have abundant, inexpensive electricity - so electrolysis becomes viable.

For most of us, the cost of sourcing the hydrogen is cost-prohibitive. The rest is simply unrealistic given the cost of the raw material, but for you…
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Got it.
Beyond the fire risk, Hydrogen gas is so light that, if not contained, it will rise rapidly to the top of the Earth's atmosphere and escape into space. Lost fuel is cost prohibitive.

Should I start with proper containment planning? Custom stainless mandrel bent tubing ain't cheap, ya know...
Gotta submit my project plan and budget for approval.
 
ripcord said:
Pretty sure most hydrogen is produced during petroleum refining, not electrolysis. Refineries use hydrogen during cracking and treating phases. They make hydrogen by cracking methane, too.
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There are so many ways that it's mind boggling. From the ground, water, sea water, natural gas etc.
This is why I think in 100 years or less, it will be the main source OR something that replaces lithium batteries will be needed for mass acceptance of EVs
This is a tiny sample, search engine is full of this stuff. Also big oil is in on this such as Exxon.

https://sciencebusiness.net/news/hydrogen-could-be-taken-straight-ground

https://www.energy.gov/eere/fuelcells/hydrogen-production-processes

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_production
 
alarmguy said:
There are so many ways that it's mind boggling. From the ground, water, sea water, natural gas etc.
This is why I think in 100 years or less, it will be the main source OR something that replaces lithium batteries will be needed for mass acceptance of EVs
This is a tiny sample, search engine is full of this stuff. Also big oil is in on this such as Exxon.

https://sciencebusiness.net/news/hydrogen-could-be-taken-straight-ground

https://www.energy.gov/eere/fuelcells/hydrogen-production-processes

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_production
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It's not a panacea, though, and there are quite a lot of problems associated with hydrogen as a fuel source. So many that advancements probably won't happen fast enough to facilitate a change to a hydrogen economy.

Storage technology is not there yet, and the electrolysis fuel cycle is VERY inefficient -- currently less than 50%. The amount that can be economically produced with current technology as a byproduct of petroleum refining and bio-gas processing is a tiny fraction of what would be needed for a hydrogen economy.
 
ripcord said:
It's not a panacea, though, and there are quite a lot of problems associated with hydrogen as a fuel source. So many that advancements probably won't happen fast enough to facilitate a change to a hydrogen economy.

Storage technology is not there yet, and the electrolysis fuel cycle is VERY inefficient -- currently less than 50%. The amount that can be economically produced with current technology as a byproduct of petroleum refining and bio-gas processing is a tiny fraction of what would be needed for a hydrogen economy.
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I think I agree with you. At the same time lithium batteries are no a panacea either. I think, chances are, none of us in BITOG will actually be alive before the ultimate, convenient and cost effective power supply will be known. It's for sure not lithium batteries. Its hard to speculate on the future, if we could, we would "be there"

MY H2 posts are simply because we know a lot about lithium batteries and their limitations, we also know IF those limitations were ever over come we do not have the electric grid that could handle charging the current 300 million cars on the road, never mind half that 150 million when we only have 4 million EVs on the road being used as second vehicles mostly. Yet, warehouses at Amazon and Walmart are abandoning battery powered forklifts in their warehouses for H2 forklifts. Also Amazon will have some EV H2 trucks on the road.
So all I am saying, there are reasons to question what the future holds.
 
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alarmguy said:
Yet, warehouses at Amazon and Walmart are abandoning battery powered forklifts in their warehouses for H2 forklifts. Also Amazon will have some EV H2 trucks on the road.
So all I am saying, there are reasons to question what the future holds.
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They'll likely have their own filling stations, so not the same issue as with the car being discussed in this thread, which is the widespread disappearance of public hydrogen filling stations. That makes any sort of future for FCEV's pretty difficult.
 
Owen Lucas said:
You can fine some pretty amazing deals on a used Mirai.

Too bad you can't use the car as many of the hydrogen filling stations are closing down and the open ones charge $200 a refill. I presume this is the reason for the massive discount.

I think a this vehicle can make an interesting project for a conversion to BEV or even ICE. Probably not in California but some other states might not care so much.

Installing a battery would be a technical challenge to have the vehicles systems communicate with one another. Might be better off designing your own system.

Going the ICE route might be easier. There have been a few swaps of gasoline engines into Teslas.

https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/l-Used-Toyota-Mirai-d2359

View attachment 206295
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LS swap it 🤣
 
SubieRubyRoo said:
LS swap it 🤣
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toyota-funny-car
 
Owen Lucas said:
You can fine some pretty amazing deals on a used Mirai.

Too bad you can't use the car as many of the hydrogen filling stations are closing down and the open ones charge $200 a refill. I presume this is the reason for the massive discount.

I think a this vehicle can make an interesting project for a conversion to BEV or even ICE. Probably not in California but some other states might not care so much.

Installing a battery would be a technical challenge to have the vehicles systems communicate with one another. Might be better off designing your own system.

Going the ICE route might be easier. There have been a few swaps of gasoline engines into Teslas.

https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/l-Used-Toyota-Mirai-d2359

View attachment 206295
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Hellcat swap anyone?
 
George Bynum said:
Citation? Are you sure those conversions aren't to CNG or LNG? Those are what I have seen locally.
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A lot on the internet if you do a search on h2 and the companies I’ve mentioned.
If this is your question this is a sample of what I’ve been reading as I have in interest in these companies.

https://www.aboutamazon.com/news/su...n-hydrogen-to-help-decarbonize-its-operations

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/08/25/ama...gen-deal-with-fuel-cell-maker-plug-power.html

https://www.hydrogenfuelnews.com/hydrogen-fuel-cell-walmart/8553020/
 
OVERKILL said:
They'll likely have their own filling stations, so not the same issue as with the car being discussed in this thread, which is the widespread disappearance of public hydrogen filling stations. That makes any sort of future for FCEV's pretty difficult.
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Agree, they will have their own source. Actually just posted those links highlighting fork lifts and their trucks.
Issue still remains to me anyway. Not in any of our lifetimes will lithium cars and trucks be capable of being a majority of vehicle's on US roads. Something, some unknown will have to come along if and only if petroleum is to be replaced.
I think as much a lot more advancement in energy is the future.
 
alarmguy said:
There are so many ways that it's mind boggling. From the ground, water, sea water, natural gas etc.
This is why I think in 100 years or less, it will be the main source OR something that replaces lithium batteries will be needed for mass acceptance of EVs
This is a tiny sample, search engine is full of this stuff. Also big oil is in on this such as Exxon.

https://sciencebusiness.net/news/hydrogen-could-be-taken-straight-ground

https://www.energy.gov/eere/fuelcells/hydrogen-production-processes

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_production
Click to expand...
Hydrogen is a fuel.

It is not a power source.

Very little free hydrogen exists, it bonds with other things, like oxygen, easily, so it has to be extracted from various chemical compounds with which the hydrogen has bonded. Breaking the bond takes energy.

Extracting pure hydrogen from water takes a huge amount of electricity, that took energy to generate.

Extracting H2 from fossil fuels requires a large amount of energy, typically in the form of heat.

So many ways to get it, sure - but all of them take energy and lots of it.
 
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