Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
Hydrogen is not much better than ICE, its simply another fuel that has to be processed and transferred around.
Electricity is much more efficient.
Secondly part of the reason ICE cars overtook all others in the teens and twenties was the massive infrastructure investment in gas stations. Musk is doing this with his charging stations, Toyota is not.
Other than the charging stations which are popping up we already have most of the infrastructure in place for electric cars. Augmented with Musk's SolarCity on every roof and their you go.
Not true.
I've built and operated fuel cell plants, operating off diesel fuel, returning 40-50% efficiency on the basis of lower heating value of the fuel.
There are a ton of industrial plants out there running at least in the 40% efficient range, generally using phosphoric acid fuel cells, some also using sofc or mcfc fuel cells.
The reality is that these plants don't have sufficient power density to fit in cars. Thus why pem or pbi phos acid stacks are key.
What everyone needs to realize is that hydrogen infrastructure need not be the solution - reformed hydrocarbons is a sound approach, and in reality is a likely candidate (and well known industrial process used the world over) for producing hydrogen even for fcvs.
The key benefit is that the fuel efficiency of a fc is much higher at very low loads, which is where most vehicles spend most time. A good diesel may have similar efficiency at some highish load point, but fcs are much higher across the power band, and can idle with no real fuel flow. Reformed systems have some start time considerations, but the reality is that fuel cells use power electronics and batteries for load leveling, so an ev mode with a fuel cell (extended/charger/prime mover) is smart.
Actually, I've looked at the Honda Accord hybrid, but if you read up about that drivetrain setup, it really is the best way, IMO... But looking to the future, different biases on the battery, and swap the engine with FC, etc.
Its an increase in efficiency but the main problem of powering vehicles with petroleum still exists. Improvement yes, best solution IMHO no.
I think that might be a great system for trucks since battery powered trucks just are not going to happen anytime soon.
I'm a big fan of EV's for a number of reasons but the biggest is the positive economic impact for our country. Tesla is creating lots of manufacturing jobs which I don't think anyone would argue is a bad thing. Also reducing the impact of oil price fluctuations on the US economy is IMHO one of the best things we could do as a country. Every time oil surges our economy slows down, and when the BRIC countries start sucking more of it up, its going to spike like crazy. The OPEC is no longer able or willing to control the price, which right now is translating into low prices. But we will get to feel the other side of that sooner or later.
I also view energy independence in both real and economic terms as the most important thing for US foreign policy going forward. If we want to have any chance of being relevant we need to be able to not wrap ourselves up or be forced around because of energy IE oil concerns. EV's and lots of solar panels are a step in that direction, more so if they are manufactured here.
