Correct i forgot about the esters! I was thinking more around 5-7% but all we can do is guess
Updated M1 FS 0w-40 - More PAO
- Thread starter OVERKILL
- Start date
No way MORE!!! 200% esters!!! Lol
This is what I had said:
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/redline-goes-api-sn.307236/page-2#post-5070993
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/redline-goes-api-sn.307236/page-2#post-5070993
edyvw
$50 site donor 2025
B
UOA of Motul 300V and M1 0W40 showed much more oxidation in M1. My latest UOA of M1 ESP 0W30 showed a lot too.
The ASTM D7414 oxidation value will increase as the oil ages. It is one of the parameters that is used to determine the condition of the in-service oil:
https://www.astm.org/d7414-21.html
To get an estimate of the POE content, you need a VOA, not a UOA. In a VOA, the oxidation value doesn't correspond to an actual oxidation but the amount of oxygen-containing substances such as POE.
edyvw
$50 site donor 2025
I am just observing the UOA in same car, 5k, used heavily on track.
I know that with miles oxidation is going to increase and that that is not how ester is measured. What I wanted to do is just give some info since you mentioned ester core in Motul and M1.
Reading ASTM D7414, here is how it works:
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Therefore, since a polyol ester (POE) contains a carbonyl group, it shows up in the reported ASTM D7414 oxidation value even for fresh oil in a VOA. For used oil, the actual oxidation further increases the reported ASTM D7414 oxidation value.
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
5 | SIGNIFICANCE AND USE
5.1 A large number of compounds, such as aldehydes, ketones, esters, and carboxylic acids, are produced when oils react with atmospheric oxygen. Oxidation is measured using a common FT-IR spectral feature between 1800 cm–1 and 1670 cm–1 caused by the absorption of the carbonyl group present in most oxidation compounds. These oxidation products may lead to increased viscosity (causing oil thickening problems), acidity (causing acidic corrosion), and formation of sludge and varnish (leading to filter plugging, fouling of critical oil clearances and valve friction). Monitoring of oxidation products is therefore an important parameter in determining overall machinery health and should be considered in conjunction with data from other tests such as atomic emission (AE) and atomic absorption (AA) spectroscopy for wear metal analysis (Test Method D5185) and physical property tests (Test Methods D445), base reserve (Test Method D2896 and D4739), acid number tests (Test Methods D664 and D974) and other FT-IR oil analysis methods for nitration (Test Method D7624), sulfate by-products (Test Method D7415), and additive depletion (Test Method D7412), which also assess elements of the oil’s condition, see Refs (1-6)._________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Therefore, since a polyol ester (POE) contains a carbonyl group, it shows up in the reported ASTM D7414 oxidation value even for fresh oil in a VOA. For used oil, the actual oxidation further increases the reported ASTM D7414 oxidation value.
If it has Esther in there, It would be one tough oil!
@OVERKILL
https://sds.exxonmobil.com/Download.aspx?ID=934886&docFormat=PDF
New msds for the usa and it looks the same to me but the revision date is february 14th 2022
https://sds.exxonmobil.com/Download.aspx?ID=934886&docFormat=PDF
New msds for the usa and it looks the same to me but the revision date is february 14th 2022
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Yeah, they've got something going on here. The UK SDS was updated January 18th and looks the same as the one I posted in the OP, the Canadian one was updated February 15th and still shows the same data as the US one, also showing the newer date, but older data.
German one, January 19th, 2022 update, same as in the OP.
I think there's a disconnect somewhere. Of course an SDS isn't a recipe, so there is likely little pressure to ensure that these sheets are consistent in content. We know the Pour Point for any of these SDS sheets doesn't even remotely come close to aligning with the PDS while the KV40 and KV100 values for the PDS match what's on the SDS for US/Canada.
Based on the Pour Point, which is from the PDS, so required to be accurate, I'd take the UK/German SDS to be "current". They haven't updated the visc section of the UK/German SDS, while they don't appear to have updated the percentages section of the US/CDN SDS.
UK PDS:
Yeah mobil is way off on pour points on sds vs pds. I have seen some mobil 1 oils the sds says pour point is 90 degrees f lol. Something weird is going on with it for sure
D
Deleted member 89374
@travis8352 and @OVERKILL we need to revisit that Russian pour point video:
Castrol claims -57C in every recent SDS document I've seen for their Euro 0W-40. I guess everyone is embellishing a little bit: https://msdspds.castrol.com/msdspds/msdspds.nsf/CastrolResults?OpenForm&c=All&l=English (GB)&p=EDGE 0W-40 A3/B4&n=&b=All&t=MSDS&autosearch=No&autoload=No&sitelang=EN&output=Full&spu=Lubricants&unrestrictedmb=No&cols=0
My take: unless you live in Yakutsk
, you don't need to worry *that much* about it:
Castrol claims -57C in every recent SDS document I've seen for their Euro 0W-40. I guess everyone is embellishing a little bit: https://msdspds.castrol.com/msdspds/msdspds.nsf/CastrolResults?OpenForm&c=All&l=English (GB)&p=EDGE 0W-40 A3/B4&n=&b=All&t=MSDS&autosearch=No&autoload=No&sitelang=EN&output=Full&spu=Lubricants&unrestrictedmb=No&cols=0
My take: unless you live in Yakutsk
, you don't need to worry *that much* about it:
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
@travis8352 and @OVERKILL we need to revisit that Russian pour point video:
Castrol claims -57C in every recent SDS document I've seen for their Euro 0W-40. I guess everyone is embellishing a little bit: https://msdspds.castrol.com/msdspds/msdspds.nsf/CastrolResults?OpenForm&c=All&l=English (GB)&p=EDGE 0W-40 A3/B4&n=&b=All&t=MSDS&autosearch=No&autoload=No&sitelang=EN&output=Full&spu=Lubricants&unrestrictedmb=No&cols=0
My take: unless you live in Yakutsk
Well, that video is from 2017, lol. I'd have to look back through my PDS archive to see what Mobil was claiming around that time, but I believe those were the VISOM days and PAO content wasn't substantial. Pretty impressive actually, when compared to a fully PAO-based lube there.
edyvw
$50 site donor 2025
I think VISOM days ended in 2015.
I think the m1 fs 0w40 flavor in russia is called m1 new life fs 0w40 so i think that is the visom version which i dont know the pour point from back then but i believe the mrv@-40 was 31000
SammyChevelleTypeS3
$50 site donor 2023
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Yes, the Mobil 1 New Life 0w-40 was the product that used VISOM.
Pour point for the PAO version was -54C, and shifted up to -48C with VISOM. MRV went from 22,000cP to 29,000cP (just going by the presentation).
Looking back through the history, I created a thread in February of 2016 pointing out that the product was reformulated with GTL:
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/mobil-1-now-containing-gtl.249334/
It went to 10-20% PAO and 40-70% GTL on the SDS. This was when they dropped the "New Life" moniker and the product became FS, at least in North America.
OT: that thread reminds me of why Pontual isn't here anymore, lol.
Not sure what to make of the product in the video, but given that it doesn't say "New Life" on the bottle, I'd assume this is the GTL/PAO blend that came out after.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Forward. More PAO is an improvement.
I translated mobil.ru to english and the m1 fs 0w40 lable over there says advanced full synthetic like the quart bottle in that video and says fs above the 0w40. Same specs as us version with recent msds showing more pao and slightly less gtl with a little bit of group 3
