Redline goes api sn+

[kschachn]

Originally Posted by burla
I wonder if he is even right on this email, I need to see a uoa or voa to even believe it.

I've said many times Amsoil SS is a great choice for the lspi crowd, don't need to go back and name all of the oils that are, just like we don't need to revisit that Amsoil has left a lot of hemi's ticking that the other redline formula cured. This is about this oil and imo redline missed the mark, as of now subject to verification.

Originally Posted by burla
yes, redline does too. Anyone not an Amsoil shill try emailing them with any reasonable question about any of their products. find out for yourself. Other forums I am on have asked near 50 questions about formula, always straight forward answer, they are KNOWN for it. Every single person not an amsoil shill is blwon away by their honesty. But there is a group here that hardly matters what the truth is they are invested in thier disinformation campaign. like I said, email dave with a question, Ill eat my hat if he doesn't answer. We have a thread where at least 50 of his posted about formula, stuff no other oil company does. Anything from levels to vii's, to level of ester, whatever. It is embarassing to suggest they don't.

How things change, eh?

 

[StevieC]

Originally Posted by burla
Just saying, how can a manufactorer say something is lspi friendly and not have something they are known for that is a lspi quencher? If you are gonna make an lspi formula, you should take out everything you can that are known causes of lspi, and put in everything you can that quenches lspi. I'm sure this formula and product line will evolve as it already has, it started as just two weights for low ash diesels, but none the less a little disapointing from the lspi point of view. Still good for the low ash crowd, but the growing segmant that are the di turbo crowd this is a let down. I wonder if he is even right on this email, I need to see a uoa or voa to even believe it.

I've said many times Amsoil SS is a great choice for the lspi crowd, don't need to go back and name all of the oils that are, just like we don't need to revisit that Amsoil has left a lot of hemi's ticking that the other redline formula cured. This is about this oil and imo redline missed the mark, as of now subject to verification.


LSPI seems to be quenched by the reduction of Calcium and to a lesser degree Sodium, otherwise we would have just had oil manufacturers dumping boatloads of Moly into their oils and calling it a day.
Amsoil had lots of moly prior to changing the formula for LSPI and they did so by reducing Calcium (no sodium to take out to begin with) and increasing other detergents that are LSPI friendly.

 

[buster]

What has made Redline unique for years was their formulating approach which was based on a high percentage of POE base stocks. It appears that over time RL lowered the amount or was never really 100% honest about how much POE they contained. I suppose they did always contain more than any other PCMO oil even if the POE percentage was more than 20-40%.

Now that RL is owned by CP, it's likely this is formulated by CP for the mass market. I'm curious what a VOA would look like. Moly is not the only FM additive available, although it's a very good one. I would guess that this oil looks like most of the other oils on the market and contains Mg/Ca detergents. They do mention it's a III/IV based product, again, like all the others on the market. CP is likely using the RL name to grab some attention from those that want a premium boutique based oil.

Redline's forte was always their unique POE racing oils that came in very low, hard to find viscosity grades.

Mobil 1 moved to a lower SA/Mg/Ca detergent system in 2012. I had questioned them back then about the move to this system and they were working closely with the auto industry and were well ahead of the game. Now that RL and others see the demand there, they too have moved in that direction.

 

[Gokhan]

Originally Posted by burla
redline lspi friendly oil

Well there goes the neighborhood, but I do not know moly levels. If they are high, that would be a pretty good choice for an lspi quenching oil with the mix pao/III basestock.

Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Not surprising given the product line this falls under. It's likely just a "branded" CP item.

OVERKILL is correct.

According to the MSDS and TDS, this is repackaged (and repriced) Kendall synthetic. It's Group III -- there is no PAO. KV40, KV100, etc. are identical. There is no Kendall 5W-20 dexos1 Gen 2 -- that's why it doesn't have dexos1 Gen 2 for this SAE viscosity.

So, there is no mystery.

 

[StevieC]

I wonder if the D1G2 license number for the 5w30 matches CP product?

 

[burla]

Originally Posted by buster
What has made Redline unique for years was their formulating approach which was based on a high percentage of POE base stocks. It appears that over time RL lowered the amount or was never really 100% honest about how much POE they contained. I suppose they did always contain more than any other PCMO oil even if the POE percentage was more than 20-40%.


They lied about their POE level? NO, they surely didn't. And, of course it was never 100% poe because it can't be, the maximum levels of poe you can even have and maintain seals is nowhere near 100%. And with all of their changes as you say, their cSt never changed even a tenth in the last ten years, in fact the only change I noticed was a drop in moly from 880ppm to around 500ppm, blue label. If anyone has any FACTS I like to hear them, but assumptions and speculations are just fake news.

 

[dave1251]

Originally Posted by burla
Originally Posted by buster
What has made Redline unique for years was their formulating approach which was based on a high percentage of POE base stocks. It appears that over time RL lowered the amount or was never really 100% honest about how much POE they contained. I suppose they did always contain more than any other PCMO oil even if the POE percentage was more than 20-40%.


They lied about their POE level? NO, they surely didn't. And, of course it was never 100% poe because it can't be, the maximum levels of poe you can even have and maintain seals is nowhere near 100%. And with all of their changes as you say, their cSt never changed even a tenth in the last ten years, in fact the only change I noticed was a drop in moly from 880ppm to around 500ppm, blue label. If anyone has any FACTS I like to hear them, but assumptions and speculations are just fake news.



https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=110076

Read away. Boom roasted!

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted by dave1251
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by dave1251
Originally Posted by aquariuscsm
Maybe rebadged Motorcraft?

Not with that NOACK the additive package could be the same.


I don't see Noack listed.


Post
#5069869



That was for the white bottle non-API product Dave, there wasn't one listed for the product being discussed, which is the black bottle in the upper part of that same post.

White bottle with the 6% Noack and zero approvals:
https://www.redlineoil.com/5w30-motor-oil

Black bottle (topic of this thread) with no Noack listed and API SN+:
https://www.redlineoil.com/professional-series-5w30-motor-oil

that help?

 

[addyguy]

Here is the VOA for Kendall GT-1 5W-20:

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/foru...-1-max-sae-5w-20-api-sn-plus#Post4916993

Has only 18ppm of moly, which is basically none. So, maybe this new RL oil uses the same add-pack as this - uses Titanium as the main anti-wear additive?

 

[dailydriver]

Originally Posted by OVERKILL
That was for the white bottle non-API product Dave, there wasn't one listed for the product being discussed, which is the black bottle in the upper part of that same post.

White bottle with the 6% Noack and zero approvals:
https://www.redlineoil.com/5w30-motor-oil

Black bottle (topic of this thread) with no Noack listed and API SN+:
https://www.redlineoil.com/professional-series-5w30-motor-oil

that help?

IF they made a D1G2/SN+, PAO/POE base stock oil with that white bottle/blue label's add pack (sans the crazy calcium/sodium, and yes, with much more magnesium), it would be in my car's sump right now.

As it is right now, my guess is that the Ravenol 5W-30 DXG is leaps and bounds better than that 'Red Line' black bottle stuff.

 

[dave1251]

Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by dave1251
Originally Posted by OVERKILL

I don't see Noack listed.


Post
#5069869



That was for the white bottle non-API product Dave, there wasn't one listed for the product being discussed, which is the black bottle in the upper part of that same post.

White bottle with the 6% Noack and zero approvals:
https://www.redlineoil.com/5w30-motor-oil

Black bottle (topic of this thread) with no Noack listed and API SN+:
https://www.redlineoil.com/professional-series-5w30-motor-oil

that help?



Copy burla looking to post the best specs for Red Line not accurate. I'm not surprised.

 

[burla]

Originally Posted by dave1251
Originally Posted by burla
Originally Posted by buster
What has made Redline unique for years was their formulating approach which was based on a high percentage of POE base stocks. It appears that over time RL lowered the amount or was never really 100% honest about how much POE they contained. I suppose they did always contain more than any other PCMO oil even if the POE percentage was more than 20-40%.


They lied about their POE level? NO, they surely didn't. And, of course it was never 100% poe because it can't be, the maximum levels of poe you can even have and maintain seals is nowhere near 100%. And with all of their changes as you say, their cSt never changed even a tenth in the last ten years, in fact the only change I noticed was a drop in moly from 880ppm to around 500ppm, blue label. If anyone has any FACTS I like to hear them, but assumptions and speculations are just fake news.



https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=110076

Read away. Boom roasted!


I just think that is funny, you think you got me or something? Redline cSt and HTHS has not changed, if you take your speculation that the formula has changed and my speculation the formula is the same minus moly lavel, and took it to court, I would own all your stuff and likely you would be disowned by your family for squandering family wealth on a dog court case.

Now show me where Redline has stated thier poe level and now show me where it changed, or I will settle out of court for a cookie and go about my day. Enough with this junk. So from the first post, to the post I posted thanks to Dave for being honest, I have determined this line is not withn redline's tradition of quality and likely is something put on them by CP, which would just be a guess like OK an anyone else's guess w/o more inside info. If you ask me it is still in development stage from the unorganized way it was released to the packaging. I certainly wouldn't run it for 9.49 a bottle. But it doesn't change blue label, that is still killing hemi ticks every day over there that other oisl don't. BTW, just yesterday yet another fella took 3 video's before and after redline killing ticks, guess that would have to value here. So that formula is still doing what it does, from a decade ago to today, random dudes over and over posting thier experience. Anyone interested I will post the video's here, again nothing to do with me or anyone I know over and over and over. Anyone who thinks blue label isn't an oil that can do things that other oils can't, is just flat wrong... sorry not sorry

again yesterdays video's from yet another experience, I have long lost how many guys have had this happen...

Sorry to memeber if he didn't want them posted, I am taking liberties here, but in the spirit of helping folks who want to get rid of knocks and tick internally, there is a best oil for that one thing. First video old oil, then 300 miles on redline, then 1400 miles on redline, again this seams to be what is happening over and over, the formula takes time to populate a strong film and the ticks go away. Just like in hemi tick thread here, just since that thread many guys same thing as this, over and over and over. Not all take video's, but most report that redline is killing thier ticks. Redline high performance 5w30 is hemi honey, nothing like it, I am suprised and to be honest a little disgusted and the constant jabs at this oil in an "oil guy" forum. One would think this would be just great news for oil guys. So if the formula has changed, it didn't chnage the ongoing results, again fron yesterday. New redline, not a fan, old pao/poe redline, is making new fans everyday. Just not here.

[video:youtube]https://youtu.be/VjXDs9rF_CI?t=31[/video]

[video:youtube]https://youtu.be/TxF31I29ubE?t=5[/video]

[video:youtube]https://youtu.be/nTXql2QQJaA?t=42[/video]

 

[dave1251]

https://forums.noria.com/topic/redline-oil-would-like-your-thoughts-experiencesp

No need for you to post testimonials for over a decade Dave at Red Line either mislead stating Red Line was Ester based or 100% ester. You got your answer twice.

 

[burla]

Some guy said the formula changed, well I just showed the current formula is doing what this formula has been doing for a decade, what would be the issue there? There was no need to say the formula changed without an ounce of proof, that should have been the issue?

 

[burla]

Again, have yet to see anything from redline saying it is 100% ester, which everyone knows is impossible for a passenger car oil anyway. If you are trying to post one of those i heard it from a friend who heard it from a friend things, don't bother, I got that song saved on youtube. That post did not come though. Redline's formula is the same as long as I've known, since I first found out about it from frequenting this very forum. As it turns out, there is a real use for this oil in every day applications. Not the new black label, but the real redline that is helping many people. Why wouldn't that interest you and others? Does that hurt your feelings reldine is so good? Really, what is the problem with you oil guys? I really would like to know. Any unbiased oil guy would think that an oil is sticking out and ending ticking valve trains should be a good thing. Instead yaw'll just want to fight.

 

[PimTac]

They should just rename it Pinkline.

 

[burla]

Originally Posted by PimTac



They should just rename it Pinkline.


What is your purpose in this thread, because not that I am judgeing or anything, but this seams to be a low value post. Maybe you should work on that a bit, and come up with comething that furthers the conversation. Just a thought, but consider the individuals who go to effort to share thier experience to help others, not named Burla. Like the one of many who took the time to video document that. And all you got is pinkline? really? Guess it is easy to sit back and crack wize when it wasn't you who shelled out a bunch of money on a truck that knocks and a manu that refuses to fix them.

 

[Gokhan]

Regarding the base oil in the Red Line High-Performance 5W-30, it's apparently roughly 82 - 87% PAO and 13 - 18% ester.

A recent MSDS showed < 90% PAO as a percentage of the base oil. Additives could take up to around 25%. So, it's mostly PAO. However, ester (POE) is not listed in MSDSs typically. So, the question remained how much ester is there in addition to the primary PAO base stock.

Oil-Club Russia got the FTIR oxidation number at 90%. Apparently, it's strongly correlated with the ester content in a VOA and 50% oxidation is roughly 7 - 10% ester. So, you are looking at about 13 - 18% ester, which makes sense. While that number seems small, it's bigger than for almost any motor oil, including the Motul oils marketed as being ester-based ("ester core"), which have around 5 - 7% ester (35% oxidation).

Surprisingly, the ester content in ILSAC varieties of Mobil 1 are very small, with the oxidation number being at 10%, so no more than about 1 - 2% of ester if any. European (ACEA) varieties of Mobil 1 such as FS 0W-40, ESP, and ESP X2 0W-20 show around 35% oxidation or 5 - 7% ester.

Amsoil Signature Series 0W-40 showed 60% oxidation number or more than 8 - 12% ester.

https://testoil.com/data-interpretation/fourier-transform-infrared-ftir/

"Oxidation mostly represents degradation of the fluid, but can also detect the presence of synthetic esters, which reveals some information regarding the base-stock formulation."

Now, here is the strange thing. The oxidation number Wear Check got for the TGMO 0W-20 SN sample I sent them in 2014 came out to be 68%. Does that mean that TGMO 0W-20 SN has 8 - 12% ester, similar to Amsoil Signature Series and only second to Red Line High-Performance? It would be remarkable if it did and it wasn't an artifact of WearCheck's FTIR algorithm.

 

[burla]

That is sophiticated, so we are gauging the amount of esters based on oxidation number? Anyhow, seams reasonable, surely a better gauge then assuming something. Maybe some day we will see why Redline outperforms those oils in hemi tick. If there is a similar ester %, then esters likely aren't the culprit in the tick quench you get from that oil.

 

[Gokhan]

A later, GTL-based TGMO 0W-20 SN had 19% oxidation number according to Oil-Club Russia, which would put its ester content at around 3 - 4% if the oxidation number isn't being raised by some additive. Nevertheless, it's interesting that Toyota may be asking Exxon Mobil to use esters in TGMO, while they are uncommon in nonboutique brand-name or third-party-brand oils in the US, excluding ACEA/European OEM flavors (such as M1 FS and M1 ESP). We know Genuine Nissan Motor Oil explicitly used esters in the past.